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I feel like you don't understand what a community is... Hacker News is an online community. It has a pretty open membership policy, which is that, if you show

I feel like you don't understand what a community is... Hacker News is an online community. It has a pretty open membership policy, which is that, if you show up here over a period of time, and manage to not get hell-banned, you're a part of the community. Congrats! Part of being in a community is that it's pretty common to have a kinship with other people in that community. This place isn't a real-life place, so naturally, that kinship might not develop as quickly, or spread as deeply as one might in person. But you'd be surprised that it can still develop. So, "the vast majority of HN users" might not actually know who raganwald is, but I'd bet they've probably seen at least a few of his comments, at least if they've spent any amount of time here. However, "the vast majority of HN users" aren't actually the community. There's nothing stopping them from being part of it, they just aren't. Which is fine (I don't consider myself to be, for what it's worth). But when someone who is a part of the community has something good happen to them that's of interest to the community, people share it. The fact that this story is popular is a triumph of community, not a shitty side-effect of this place not operating the way you wish it did. I hope it continues to feel this way, lest it really turn into a shitty link aggregator that you so wish it were.

mhartl 13y ago
Well put.
larrys 13y ago
I agree with almost everything you are saying but would like to point out that in my observation on HN some community members (by your definition of "community") are more equal than others. And what they say, think and perhaps up vote or flag means quite a bit. Noting last paragraph of this top 10 profile: https://news.ycombinator.com/user?id=jacquesm https://news.ycombinator.com/user?id=jacquesm
- davidw 13y ago
  > are more equal than others. Was there ever any claim that "we are all equal" here or something like that?
  - larrys 13y ago
    Implied by a statement like this from the faq: "How are stories ranked? On the front page, by points divided by a power of the time since they were submitted. Comments in comment threads are ranked the same way." I know it's an algorithm but I just feel from observation that that statement from the faq is not entirely correct. You've been around longer (and have quite a bit of karma) so I'd like to know your thoughts on this. Because to me I don't see ranking on the home page following this faq answer.
    - davidw 13y ago
      I think the algorithm is more complicated than that, and maybe does weigh some votes more than others, but I really don't know anything more about it than you do.
    - PavlovsCat 13y ago
      I think getting flagged pushes a submission down quite a bit, and the number of "flags" unfortunately isn't displayed.
      - larrys 13y ago
        What's interesting is that from a UI perspective the "flag" is very poorly implemented. I don't ever flag and I'm sure the flagging varies also with the length of time someone has been on the site. Newbies and older users probably flag for entirely different reasons (leading me to believe that "flag" isn't even evenly weighted or shouldn't be). And what does it mean to flag anyway? It's possible someone thinks that it is "read later" and another person "this is wrong". How does anyone know what flag even is for exactly?
sytelus 13y ago
I think you have misunderstood what what I was trying to say. I was explaining why posts like this with seemingly little information density, redundant "congratulations" comments and low relevance to probably majority of HN users pops up at top. Yes, I've found raganwald's articles and comments insightful more than one occasions. However I've little interest in what color of pajama he wears in night or what flavor of ice-cream he likes. That's what Facebook is for. And there is a reason I haven't checked my Facebook "frontpage" in month. I think of HN as community of like-minded people who likes to share relevant insightful information. I do not have any judgement on what this "like-minded" means or what "relevant insightful information" should include. If some community member in leaderboard started having secret extra marital affair, should it be on frontpage of HN? I think it should be left to community to decide. What I was trying to say is that lack of downvote button disables community to make this decision. When you have only upvote button, a small group of people can collude (knowingly or unknowingly) to push anything at the top very easily whether it reflects the general sentiment in community or not. I'm still not proposing HN should starting having downvote button. As a machine learning guy, I'm endlessly fascinated with collaborative filtering and this is interesting case for me how lack of downvote/dislike/negative ratings impacts relevance.
- jcampbell1 13y ago
  Dude relax. Why write a wall of text when there is a "flag" button? From the guidelines > Please don't submit comments complaining that a submission is inappropriate for the site.
- icambron 13y ago
  The lack of a downvote button doesn't imply that everyone would downvote the things you don't don't care about. I don't know him except through Twitter and HN, but I care about his new job and upvoted the article. "But you're just one data point!" So are you.
- anigbrowl 13y ago
  Flag it then.

mhartl 13y ago

Well put.

larrys 13y ago

I agree with almost everything you are saying but would like to point out that in my observation on HN some community members (by your definition of "community") are more equal than others. And what they say, think and perhaps up vote or flag means quite a bit. Noting last paragraph of this top 10 profile: https://news.ycombinator.com/user?id=jacquesm https://news.ycombinator.com/user?id=jacquesm

davidw 13y ago
> are more equal than others. Was there ever any claim that "we are all equal" here or something like that?
- larrys 13y ago
  Implied by a statement like this from the faq: "How are stories ranked? On the front page, by points divided by a power of the time since they were submitted. Comments in comment threads are ranked the same way." I know it's an algorithm but I just feel from observation that that statement from the faq is not entirely correct. You've been around longer (and have quite a bit of karma) so I'd like to know your thoughts on this. Because to me I don't see ranking on the home page following this faq answer.
  - davidw 13y ago
    I think the algorithm is more complicated than that, and maybe does weigh some votes more than others, but I really don't know anything more about it than you do.
  - PavlovsCat 13y ago
    I think getting flagged pushes a submission down quite a bit, and the number of "flags" unfortunately isn't displayed.
    - larrys 13y ago
      What's interesting is that from a UI perspective the "flag" is very poorly implemented. I don't ever flag and I'm sure the flagging varies also with the length of time someone has been on the site. Newbies and older users probably flag for entirely different reasons (leading me to believe that "flag" isn't even evenly weighted or shouldn't be). And what does it mean to flag anyway? It's possible someone thinks that it is "read later" and another person "this is wrong". How does anyone know what flag even is for exactly?

sytelus 13y ago

I think you have misunderstood what what I was trying to say. I was explaining why posts like this with seemingly little information density, redundant "congratulations" comments and low relevance to probably majority of HN users pops up at top. Yes, I've found raganwald's articles and comments insightful more than one occasions. However I've little interest in what color of pajama he wears in night or what flavor of ice-cream he likes. That's what Facebook is for. And there is a reason I haven't checked my Facebook "frontpage" in month. I think of HN as community of like-minded people who likes to share relevant insightful information. I do not have any judgement on what this "like-minded" means or what "relevant insightful information" should include. If some community member in leaderboard started having secret extra marital affair, should it be on frontpage of HN? I think it should be left to community to decide. What I was trying to say is that lack of downvote button disables community to make this decision. When you have only upvote button, a small group of people can collude (knowingly or unknowingly) to push anything at the top very easily whether it reflects the general sentiment in community or not. I'm still not proposing HN should starting having downvote button. As a machine learning guy, I'm endlessly fascinated with collaborative filtering and this is interesting case for me how lack of downvote/dislike/negative ratings impacts relevance.

jcampbell1 13y ago
Dude relax. Why write a wall of text when there is a "flag" button? From the guidelines > Please don't submit comments complaining that a submission is inappropriate for the site.
icambron 13y ago
The lack of a downvote button doesn't imply that everyone would downvote the things you don't don't care about. I don't know him except through Twitter and HN, but I care about his new job and upvoted the article. "But you're just one data point!" So are you.
anigbrowl 13y ago
Flag it then.