6 ms·

I'd posit that the only reason for the existence of agencies such as the NSA is exactly what Eisenhower warned us about on his way out the door (sorry for textw

by ferdo 13y ago

I'd posit that the only reason for the existence of agencies such as the NSA is exactly what Eisenhower warned us about on his way out the door (sorry for textwall but its all relevant to my point): "...Until the latest of our world conflicts, the United States had no armaments industry. American makers of plowshares could, with time and as required, make swords as well. But now we can no longer risk emergency improvisation of national defense; we have been compelled to create a permanent armaments industry of vast proportions. Added to this, three and a half million men and women are directly engaged in the defense establishment. We annually spend on military security more than the net income of all United States corporations. This conjunction of an immense military establishment and a large arms industry is new in the American experience. The total influence -- economic, political, even spiritual -- is felt in every city, every State house, every office of the Federal government. We recognize the imperative need for this development. Yet we must not fail to comprehend its grave implications. Our toil, resources and livelihood are all involved; so is the very structure of our society. In the councils of government, we must guard against the acquisition of unwarranted influence, whether sought or unsought, by the military-industrial complex. The potential for the disastrous rise of misplaced power exists and will persist. We must never let the weight of this combination endanger our liberties or democratic processes. We should take nothing for granted. Only an alert and knowledgeable citizenry can compel the proper meshing of the huge industrial and military machinery of defense with our peaceful methods and goals, so that security and liberty may prosper together." > http://coursesa.matrix.msu.edu/~hst306/documents/indust.html http://coursesa.matrix.msu.edu/~hst306/documents/indust.html The Federal Reserve, the central bank, is the engine of the military-industrial complex (Eisenhower wanted to call it the military-industrial-congressional complex but his speechwriters advised against it) and is the core reason for the imposition of this complex in our lives. It's a private bank run along the lines of a public utility, which ensures that the worst parts of both the public and the private sector will be emphasized. Until we remove private interests from the middle of government, ain't nothing gonna change. Always follow The Money.

euroclydon 13y ago
It's hard to conjure up a plausible scenario where the M/IC takes over the country and ruins our lives without introducing a Kim Jong Il style madman into the mix. They tried to do it in the TV series Jericho and that's where the story fell apart.
rayiner 13y ago
The quote is relevant, but nothing in it supports your claim that the central bank is the "engine of the military-industrial complex." The permanent defense establishment is not the result of the Federal Reserve, it's the result of technology. It's the result of factors that are clearly contemplated in the by the framers, but the balance of which has shifted as a result of modern technology. The Constitution provides for a permanent Navy, and the U.S. realized the importance of one very early. In his second term, George Washington said: "There is a rank due to the United States among Nations, which will be withheld, if not absolutely lost, by the reputation of weakness. If we desire to avoid insult, we must be able to repel it; if we desire to secure peace, one of the most powerful instruments of our rising prosperity, it must be known, that we are at all times ready for War." (http://gwpapers.virginia.edu/documents/union/state5.html http://gwpapers.virginia.edu/documents/union/state5.html). In the 18th century, it was a powerful navy that was required to maintain the "rank due to the United States among Nations." A navy was the ultimate tool for projecting military power at the time. Technological progress has changed the specific tools, but the principle remains. The statements George Washington made with respect to a navy in 1793 are today applicable also to an air force and a nuclear deterrence.
- ferdo 13y ago
  > The permanent defense establishment is not the result of the Federal Reserve, it's the result of technology. The permanent defense establishment is the result of Money, as is technology. The control of the issuing of currency and credit in the US is held in the hands of privately held banks. Those same banks also own the Federal Reserve and so in turn, own the US government and its spying apparatus. Those same banks are also who all of us have to go to, be we an individual or a corporation, to get our loans. Defense contractors, farmers, students, families and the US government are all ultimately in debt to the same coterie of financial interests. Justice Brandeis said in 1928: "Instrumentalities like the national banks or the federal reserve banks, in which there are private interests, are not departments of the government. They are private corporations in which the government has an interest." > http://openjurist.org/275/us/415 http://openjurist.org/275/us/415 As you brought up Washington, he also said: "Government is not reason; it is not eloquent; it is force. Like fire, it is a dangerous servant and a fearful master." When we allowed private interests to take government, we become servants to the master. The NSA and other such outrages are just those private interests' way of keeping tabs on their inventory. A small piece of anecdotal history re: George W.Bush's grandfather during WWI: "In the spring of 1918, banker Bernard Baruch was asked to reorganize the War Industries Board as the U.S. prepared to enter World War I, and placed several prominent businessmen to key posts. Bush became chief of the Ordnance, Small Arms, and Ammunition Section, with national responsibility for government assistance to and relations with munitions companies. Bush served on the board of the Federal Reserve Bank of Cleveland (as well as of the Huntington National Bank of Columbus). In 1931, he was appointed to Herbert Hoover's President's Committee for Unemployment Relief, chaired by Walter S. Gifford, then-President of AT&T. He was once recommended to serve on the board of the Reconstruction Finance Corporation, but Hoover did not feel he was sufficiently known nationally." > http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Samuel_P._Bush#Political_prominence http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Samuel_P._Bush#Political_promin... When we allow private interests to take the reins of government at our expense, and allow it for generations, we end up with things like the Bush family.

by ferdo 13y ago

euroclydon 13y ago

It's hard to conjure up a plausible scenario where the M/IC takes over the country and ruins our lives without introducing a Kim Jong Il style madman into the mix. They tried to do it in the TV series Jericho and that's where the story fell apart.

rayiner 13y ago

The quote is relevant, but nothing in it supports your claim that the central bank is the "engine of the military-industrial complex." The permanent defense establishment is not the result of the Federal Reserve, it's the result of technology. It's the result of factors that are clearly contemplated in the by the framers, but the balance of which has shifted as a result of modern technology. The Constitution provides for a permanent Navy, and the U.S. realized the importance of one very early. In his second term, George Washington said: "There is a rank due to the United States among Nations, which will be withheld, if not absolutely lost, by the reputation of weakness. If we desire to avoid insult, we must be able to repel it; if we desire to secure peace, one of the most powerful instruments of our rising prosperity, it must be known, that we are at all times ready for War." (http://gwpapers.virginia.edu/documents/union/state5.html http://gwpapers.virginia.edu/documents/union/state5.html). In the 18th century, it was a powerful navy that was required to maintain the "rank due to the United States among Nations." A navy was the ultimate tool for projecting military power at the time. Technological progress has changed the specific tools, but the principle remains. The statements George Washington made with respect to a navy in 1793 are today applicable also to an air force and a nuclear deterrence.

ferdo 13y ago
> The permanent defense establishment is not the result of the Federal Reserve, it's the result of technology. The permanent defense establishment is the result of Money, as is technology. The control of the issuing of currency and credit in the US is held in the hands of privately held banks. Those same banks also own the Federal Reserve and so in turn, own the US government and its spying apparatus. Those same banks are also who all of us have to go to, be we an individual or a corporation, to get our loans. Defense contractors, farmers, students, families and the US government are all ultimately in debt to the same coterie of financial interests. Justice Brandeis said in 1928: "Instrumentalities like the national banks or the federal reserve banks, in which there are private interests, are not departments of the government. They are private corporations in which the government has an interest." > http://openjurist.org/275/us/415 http://openjurist.org/275/us/415 As you brought up Washington, he also said: "Government is not reason; it is not eloquent; it is force. Like fire, it is a dangerous servant and a fearful master." When we allowed private interests to take government, we become servants to the master. The NSA and other such outrages are just those private interests' way of keeping tabs on their inventory. A small piece of anecdotal history re: George W.Bush's grandfather during WWI: "In the spring of 1918, banker Bernard Baruch was asked to reorganize the War Industries Board as the U.S. prepared to enter World War I, and placed several prominent businessmen to key posts. Bush became chief of the Ordnance, Small Arms, and Ammunition Section, with national responsibility for government assistance to and relations with munitions companies. Bush served on the board of the Federal Reserve Bank of Cleveland (as well as of the Huntington National Bank of Columbus). In 1931, he was appointed to Herbert Hoover's President's Committee for Unemployment Relief, chaired by Walter S. Gifford, then-President of AT&T. He was once recommended to serve on the board of the Reconstruction Finance Corporation, but Hoover did not feel he was sufficiently known nationally." > http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Samuel_P._Bush#Political_prominence http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Samuel_P._Bush#Political_promin... When we allow private interests to take the reins of government at our expense, and allow it for generations, we end up with things like the Bush family.