4 ms·

bionic with libhybris

by kklimonda 13y ago

shmerl 13y ago
Not exciting then. More interesting would be to crowdfund glibc drivers.
- wmf 13y ago
  So, ten people each putting in $100K? Because I think that's how many people care about this issue.
  - shmerl 13y ago
    If people care about mobile Linux, they care about this issue (it's the worst issue in the industry). If people don't care, they wouldn't care about this device either. There are tons of Android clones already for them to use.
    - mwcampbell 13y ago
      What would be so bad about rebuilding Ubuntu on top of Bionic, so there's only one libc, the one required by the GPU drivers, and the lighter one to boot? If Bionic is good enough for FIrefox and Chrome on Android, then surely it's good enough for anything on a mobile device.
      - shmerl 13y ago
        Lot's of stuff - talk to Collabora developers who attempted to rebuild some common Linux middleware atop of bionic. It's very difficult, painful and upstream bionic has no interest to cooperate to help this process. So I conclude that it's a pointless time wasting. Mobile Linuxes should continue to use glibc and working on getting the drivers. Libhybris is a good tool that helps deployment until normal drivers will become more common. TL;DR - bionic is not good enough to replace glibc.
- kklimonda 13y ago
  Maybe [1], but then Canonical is aiming at getting Ubuntu into as many phones as possible, and it working with the Android stack is helping in achieving this goal. [1] On the other hand what would be a benefit of investing into getting drivers work with glibc, other than running your classic Linux distribution?
  - shmerl 13y ago
    On the other hand what would be a benefit of investing into getting drivers work with glibc To run without any translation layers and bionic quirks. That's the main benefit. When the system is using glibc (like Sailfish and Ubuntu do), and drivers aren't, the only way is to translate it like libhybris does. It's a crutch at best and not ideal. It can perform well, but it's still not direct.
    - kklimonda 13y ago
      What are the practical drawbacks of using libhybris? Have there been some benchmarks done yet?
      - shmerl 13y ago
        I guess Jolla engineers would know the most, since they are primarily developing it: * http://mer-project.blogspot.se/2013/04/wayland-utilizing-android-gpu-drivers.html http://mer-project.blogspot.se/2013/04/wayland-utilizing-and... * http://mer-project.blogspot.se/2013/05/wayland-utilizing-android-gpu-drivers.html http://mer-project.blogspot.se/2013/05/wayland-utilizing-and... But I didn't see any comparative benchmarks published so far. Translation cost might be not critical (i.e. tolerable), but it's still a cost and native approach should be always better.

bionic with libhybris

shmerl 13y ago

Not exciting then. More interesting would be to crowdfund glibc drivers.

wmf 13y ago
So, ten people each putting in $100K? Because I think that's how many people care about this issue.
- shmerl 13y ago
  If people care about mobile Linux, they care about this issue (it's the worst issue in the industry). If people don't care, they wouldn't care about this device either. There are tons of Android clones already for them to use.
  - mwcampbell 13y ago
    What would be so bad about rebuilding Ubuntu on top of Bionic, so there's only one libc, the one required by the GPU drivers, and the lighter one to boot? If Bionic is good enough for FIrefox and Chrome on Android, then surely it's good enough for anything on a mobile device.
    - shmerl 13y ago
      Lot's of stuff - talk to Collabora developers who attempted to rebuild some common Linux middleware atop of bionic. It's very difficult, painful and upstream bionic has no interest to cooperate to help this process. So I conclude that it's a pointless time wasting. Mobile Linuxes should continue to use glibc and working on getting the drivers. Libhybris is a good tool that helps deployment until normal drivers will become more common. TL;DR - bionic is not good enough to replace glibc.
kklimonda 13y ago
Maybe [1], but then Canonical is aiming at getting Ubuntu into as many phones as possible, and it working with the Android stack is helping in achieving this goal. [1] On the other hand what would be a benefit of investing into getting drivers work with glibc, other than running your classic Linux distribution?
- shmerl 13y ago
  On the other hand what would be a benefit of investing into getting drivers work with glibc To run without any translation layers and bionic quirks. That's the main benefit. When the system is using glibc (like Sailfish and Ubuntu do), and drivers aren't, the only way is to translate it like libhybris does. It's a crutch at best and not ideal. It can perform well, but it's still not direct.
  - kklimonda 13y ago
    What are the practical drawbacks of using libhybris? Have there been some benchmarks done yet?
    - shmerl 13y ago
      I guess Jolla engineers would know the most, since they are primarily developing it: * http://mer-project.blogspot.se/2013/04/wayland-utilizing-android-gpu-drivers.html http://mer-project.blogspot.se/2013/04/wayland-utilizing-and... * http://mer-project.blogspot.se/2013/05/wayland-utilizing-android-gpu-drivers.html http://mer-project.blogspot.se/2013/05/wayland-utilizing-and... But I didn't see any comparative benchmarks published so far. Translation cost might be not critical (i.e. tolerable), but it's still a cost and native approach should be always better.