6 ms·

There are already pharmaceutical drugs for that , which are abused at epidemic levels in regions of the U.S. They're safe and of high quality, though they migh

by freyr 13y ago

There are already pharmaceutical drugs for that , which are abused at epidemic levels in regions of the U.S. They're safe and of high quality, though they might still feed a criminal underbelly. Of course, people who get addicted to synthetic opiates often have their lives ravaged to the same degree as people who get addicted to regular old street heroin, despite the safety and quality of the drugs.

betterunix 13y ago
Pharmaceutical drugs are too inaccessible to really remove the criminal element from recreational drugs. What is really needed is for regulated, high-quality drugs to be sold over the counter, with loads of warning labels, to any adult who wants them. It make sound crazy, but we already do it with two of the most dangerous drugs known to man: alcohol and tobacco. Nobody is claiming that there will not be issues with dependence or abuse of these drugs. The point is that people should not have to deal with dangerous criminals, nor should they be afraid of jail time for admitting their drug use.
- epochwolf 13y ago
  I don't think it's really fair to label tobacco as "dangerous". It's definitely toxic and it will shorten your lifespan by a number of years but it's not "dangerous". Tobacco doesn't make people do stupid things like alcohol does.
  - foobarbazqux 13y ago
    Yeah, but tobacco makes you smoke tobacco.
  - matthiasl 13y ago
    This note from the US National Fire Data Center: http://www.usfa.fema.gov/downloads/pdf/tfrs/v11i4.pdf suggests that a few hundred people die every year in the US because of fires started by people smoking in bed.
- dllthomas 13y ago
  I kind of think we separately need some better mechanism for dealing with addiction, abuse, and self-destruction, regardless of the context. Unfortunately, I don't yet have anything specific to propose.
  - diydsp 13y ago
    I agree. I don't have a specific plan, either, but I have intuitions. The key things we need to address are people's natural spiritual and medical curiosity. In another thread, someone pointed out some hackers hack to scratch an itch, not just for fun. I believe the same can be said for needlepoint, carpentry and heroin. We could make space in society for people to explore the parallel worlds. Maybe a week per year research period. Many users I know of all types of drugs take them just to tolerate their jobs. We could somehow make work more tolerable. We could make everyday life more fulfilling and have less stigma attached to exploring alternate states of mind. We need to find a way to fit or shoehorn this stuff into our lives because we can't eradicate it. Perhaps this is the skill of the shamanic ritual and modern day music festivals... to put boundaries of time and space around the exploration of this alternate states of mind. We need to protect and shepherd people into safe places while they're experimenting and keep them away from responsible areas like driving and machinery while they're temporarily intoxicated. We need to keep them productive even if they're using.
shabble 13y ago
One of the major downsides to most of the diverted licit opioids is that they're intended primarily for oral use, and hence contain all sorts of things that will do terrible things when injected directly into a vein. Tiny particles of tablet filler & binding usually wash up and get stuck in the lungs, leading to a pneumonia-like condition called Talcosis. Then you have the new "anti-abuse" formulations, which contain specific ingredients designed to be uncrushable, unpleasant if injected, or insoluble/gel-forming to prevent IV use. Given junkie creativity (and suppressed self-preservation instinct), there are various methods of bypassing these obstacles, but in doing so could affect the potency of the extracted remains by a factor of 2-10x. So now you have no idea how much you're dosing, as well as what's still along for the ride. At least heroin dealers would typically only cut with toxic adulterants by negligence, rather than intent. [not an opiate (ab)user, known a few]

by freyr 13y ago

betterunix 13y ago

Pharmaceutical drugs are too inaccessible to really remove the criminal element from recreational drugs. What is really needed is for regulated, high-quality drugs to be sold over the counter, with loads of warning labels, to any adult who wants them. It make sound crazy, but we already do it with two of the most dangerous drugs known to man: alcohol and tobacco. Nobody is claiming that there will not be issues with dependence or abuse of these drugs. The point is that people should not have to deal with dangerous criminals, nor should they be afraid of jail time for admitting their drug use.

epochwolf 13y ago
I don't think it's really fair to label tobacco as "dangerous". It's definitely toxic and it will shorten your lifespan by a number of years but it's not "dangerous". Tobacco doesn't make people do stupid things like alcohol does.
- foobarbazqux 13y ago
  Yeah, but tobacco makes you smoke tobacco.
- matthiasl 13y ago
  This note from the US National Fire Data Center: http://www.usfa.fema.gov/downloads/pdf/tfrs/v11i4.pdf suggests that a few hundred people die every year in the US because of fires started by people smoking in bed.
dllthomas 13y ago
I kind of think we separately need some better mechanism for dealing with addiction, abuse, and self-destruction, regardless of the context. Unfortunately, I don't yet have anything specific to propose.
- diydsp 13y ago
  I agree. I don't have a specific plan, either, but I have intuitions. The key things we need to address are people's natural spiritual and medical curiosity. In another thread, someone pointed out some hackers hack to scratch an itch, not just for fun. I believe the same can be said for needlepoint, carpentry and heroin. We could make space in society for people to explore the parallel worlds. Maybe a week per year research period. Many users I know of all types of drugs take them just to tolerate their jobs. We could somehow make work more tolerable. We could make everyday life more fulfilling and have less stigma attached to exploring alternate states of mind. We need to find a way to fit or shoehorn this stuff into our lives because we can't eradicate it. Perhaps this is the skill of the shamanic ritual and modern day music festivals... to put boundaries of time and space around the exploration of this alternate states of mind. We need to protect and shepherd people into safe places while they're experimenting and keep them away from responsible areas like driving and machinery while they're temporarily intoxicated. We need to keep them productive even if they're using.

shabble 13y ago

One of the major downsides to most of the diverted licit opioids is that they're intended primarily for oral use, and hence contain all sorts of things that will do terrible things when injected directly into a vein. Tiny particles of tablet filler & binding usually wash up and get stuck in the lungs, leading to a pneumonia-like condition called Talcosis. Then you have the new "anti-abuse" formulations, which contain specific ingredients designed to be uncrushable, unpleasant if injected, or insoluble/gel-forming to prevent IV use. Given junkie creativity (and suppressed self-preservation instinct), there are various methods of bypassing these obstacles, but in doing so could affect the potency of the extracted remains by a factor of 2-10x. So now you have no idea how much you're dosing, as well as what's still along for the ride. At least heroin dealers would typically only cut with toxic adulterants by negligence, rather than intent. [not an opiate (ab)user, known a few]