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Fifty Shades of Grey Would Be Banned in UK?
- w_t_payne 13y agoPhase 1. Set up a surveillance state & keep a record of everything that your victims/subjects do. Phase 2. Pass legislation that people cannot meaningfully object to, yet is worded so vaguely and in such woolly terms that it tars a significant section of the population with the same brush. Phase 3. Profit! .... Finally, a 3-step plan to profit that does not involve underpants!
- zimpenfish 13y agoBeen a while since I read it and, honestly, I wasn't really taking that much notice but I don't remember any forcible or coercive rape in FSOG.
- Tinned_Tuna 13y agoRape is sex without consent. Force and coercion are related, but not actually required for rape.
- zimpenfish 13y agoI don't remember any non-consensual sex either but like I said, it's been a while.
- noja 13y agoMaybe you were so harmed by the content of the book, that you got amnesia. Luckily Cameron will save others from that same sorry fate.
- deleted 13y ago[deleted]
- peterkelly 13y agoI'm glad I knew the context when reading that comment ;)
- deleted 13y ago[deleted]
- EliRivers 13y agoAs I understand it, it's either now illegal or will be illegal (in the UK) to sell/possess/something footage of two consenting adults who are not engaged in rape, but are simulating rape. They simulate this through force, words, threats, all that sort of thing. So if that's illegal, even though it's provably not an actual rape (depending on who made it, obviously, but in theory we could call up the participants to check, or if they let the cameras keep running someone will shout "Cut" and they stop and go for a coffee), what protects similar scenes of simulated rape in books (if indeed they should be protected)? I must say the idea of FSoG being banned does make me think there's an upside to this :p
- octo_t 13y agokink.com does this in all of their videos (at the beginning of each scene discuss what is going to happen and then at the end discuss how they though it went). This is a lot better than most "vanilla" porn.
- marvin 13y agoDoes anyone have the text of the law? Will it, for instance, be illegal for BDSM practitioners to tape their own sex acts for "private use" after this? This often involves simulated rape, albeit mutually consentual.
- peterwwillis 13y agoThe whole point of the law is to criminalize the material, so a distinction between who made it or where they view it is not relevant.
- king_jester 13y ago> As I understand it, it's either now illegal or will be illegal (in the UK) to sell/possess/something footage of two consenting adults who are not engaged in rape, but are simulating rape. They simulate this through force, words, threats, all that sort of thing. This is already a really dangerous thing. Rape is sex without consent and rape doesn't always look like a struggle with violent resistance. If enforcement looks only to a violent struggle as a requirement for labeling porn as rape porn, that gov't is reenforcing existing stereotypes about rape and sexual assault.
- alayne 13y agoThis is the first I've heard about books being banned. I'm extremely skeptical of this claim.
- merlincorey 13y agoI think they [the author] are intentionally exploring it. In fact, a good portion of the article is on the definition of "depict"[1], which would probably include books by most people's understanding. The other point is being available online - which books are via kindle and other services. > Also falling into firmly into this category is Burgess' "A Clockwork Orange". Once again, it's available for Kindle, it definitely depicts rape, and it's read world-wide by millions. This is both a book and a film - extremely famous, and has a rape scene. Is it going to be illegal (once again)? Earlier, in the same section he says: > Given that many contemporary novels (and less-contemporary) novels do deal with sexual abuse and rape, some of which explore the idea of "rape fantasy" (Herein referred to by the more accepted name, "ravishment") between consenting partners means that a large portion of those with an interest in BDSM and kink will fall into this category. So, whether novels will be included or not, there is definitely already media which is currently legal and consumed by law abiding citizens who have no predilections or desires to rape anyone that may suddenly become illegal. This is a problem, in my opinion. I'm glad I have the first and second amendments... for now. [1] http://oxforddictionaries.com/definition/english/depict http://oxforddictionaries.com/definition/english/depict
- jschuur 13y agoWho is intentionally exploring it? What makes you think this? Can you provide credible news sources to back up this claim that Cameron's intended anti porn measures (which have already seen conflicting pieces on opt-out vs opt-in) will be applied to books? Other than a sensationalist blog post by someone whose passion for free speech led them to wildly jump to unfounded conclusions, which doesn't help the legitimate discussion around this topic at all?
- merlincorey 13y ago> Who is intentionally exploring it? The person you assigned the identifier "someone whose passion for free speech led them to wildly jump to unfounded conclusions" which is far too long of an identifier, if you ask me, but that's not really the point either. > What makes you think this? The fact that I read the article makes me think that the person who wrote the article is exploring said concept. > Can you provide credible news sources to back up this claim that Cameron's intended anti porn measures (which have already seen conflicting pieces on opt-out vs opt-in) will be applied to books? Can you provide the quoted text from the article we are discussing which makes this exact claim? I never said it did, I said it was exploring the possibility, and to back that up I included relevant passages and information. Furthermore, I made the point, which you ignored, that whether or not books are included, there is currently media that is being consumed and possessed by people in the UK which will certainly be considered illegal very soon. Can you tell me your stance on how good or bad that is?
- skinofstars 13y agoI think a more notable example included in that is A Clockwork Orange, which clearly depicts (simulated) rape. Is this classic now going to be illegal to distribute online in the UK?
- rjsw 13y agoI guess Pulp Fiction will be banned too.
- lotsofcows 13y agoSimulated? He drugs then rapes two underage girls.
- ahoy 13y agoSimulated in the sense that it's a fictional work, not a documentary.
- rasur 13y agoActually, you're thinking of the wrong part of the film.
- lotsofcows 13y agoThe film?
- rasur 13y agoI was referring to the film version of A Clockwork Orange, which does have a rape scene, but not of the two teenagers from the record shop. The book is another matter though (not that I can remember it clearly, haven't read it for at least 2 decades..). EDIT: Actually, this is cleared up above, which is fortunate since I appeared to be asleep at the wheel when I wrote my original response ;)
- davidjohnstone 13y agoIn defence of this comment, apparently the book describes the drugging and raping of two ten year olds from the record shop, which is changed in the film to be a consensual encounter with girls his own age. There are other rape scenes in the movie though. Fun fact: one of the actresses involved quit because of the difficulty of filming them. One other movie with a rape scene: American History X.
- calgoo 13y agoWhat about all the prison rape scenes in movies?? Will this make them illegal? Or as they are same sex, they don't count? Would be interesting to see if they classify them as perversion or something similar instead of rape. With this current government, it would not surprise me if they say that a same sex rape victim is asking for it or something...
- rbehrends 13y agoUnlikely. Anti-pornography laws generally only apply to imagery whose purpose is to be titillating [1]. There's just too much content of a sexual nature that is perfectly legitimate (arts, sciences, and journalism in particular). [1] See, e.g., the Scottish law after which the legislation is supposed to be modeled: http://www.scotland.gov.uk/Publications/2011/03/extremepornographyguidanc/Q/pno/2 http://www.scotland.gov.uk/Publications/2011/03/extremeporno...
- workbench 13y ago> purpose is to be titillating Who decides where the line is drawn?
- DanBC 13y agoA jury of your peers, applying the "man in the street" logic.
- rbehrends 13y agoThe courts. See the link. In practice, this definition has rarely [1] been a problem. There are more serious concerns. For example, a real problem with possession-based laws (as opposed to distribution-based laws) is how comparatively easy it is to frame innocent people [2]. Law enforcement likes possession-based laws, because they are an order of magnitude easier to prove and prosecute. [1] Which is not to say "never". [2] http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-london-11397515 http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-london-11397515
- workbench 13y ago
- infinita740 13y agoMy kindle contains The Pillars of the Earth (Ken Follett), so now I can't travel to uk without violating the law? Quoting from wikipedia: "The book was listed at no. 33 on the BBC's Big Read" (2003) Everybody is a suspect, when will we start to learn from history?
- nicholassmith 13y agoPlus they're big on removing child pornography so we can also say good bye to Lolita as well.
- a8da6b0c91d 13y agoAs I recall it Lolita is discreet with the intercourse depictions; it's never "graphic" as I gather is 50 Shades.
- nicholassmith 13y agoGood point, but we don't know how much is too much yet.
- workbench 13y agoand the daily mail seen as it's happy to publish photos of one of the Kardashian's babies in a string bikini
- beedogs 13y agoit might all be worth it if we can somehow make that happen.
- drunkenmasta 13y agoand goodbye, Irréversible, Stockholm International Film Festival's winner for best film.
- jlebrech 13y agowouldn't that logic mean that both the koran and the bible are banned too?
- Mordor 13y agoPerhaps we could close all the churches, synagogues, mosques and temples to... protect the children.
- theboywho 13y agoSo now the UK is turning into saudi arabia ? or is it iran ? Anyone who is choked when they hear about alcohol or porn banned in these countries and is not choked by this move from the UK government has a serious mental problem.
- boothead 13y agoI'm guessing that the being choked will also be illegal...
- jbigelow76 13y agoOnly if it turns you on.
- Hellenion 13y agoThey should ban alcohol before porn, it might even help in reducing sexual abuse.
- astine 13y agoOh no, this new wave of UK anti-porn zealotry will ban even legitimate literature like 50 Shades of Grey... Give me a break. 50 Shades of Grey is a porn novel. It's a porn novel that made the best seller list, much to the first world's embarrassment and I'll bet you anything that it's what prompted this law in the first place. There are a lot of legitimate reasons to be concerned about this new proposed law, but I won't shed a tear for 50 Shades.
- spiek 13y agoI think you are missing the point. It seems that the author used 50 Shades of Grey to illustrate his "If everyone is a criminal, no one is" point. Literary merit aside, 50 Shades of Grey was a massive hit, and also pornographic, meaning that lots and lots of people read it, and lots and lots of people are now "criminals". Also, in terms of freedom of expression how is 50 shades of grey any less significant than any of the other books he listed?
- astine 13y ago"Literary merit aside, 50 Shades of Grey was a massive hit, and also pornographic, meaning that lots and lots of people read it," Which is probably something that the UK government does not want happening again. "and lots and lots of people are now "criminals"." No they're not, unless they decide to share copies of the novel online. I must have really missed it if there was something about retroactively enforcing laws. There are legit concerns here, but fsog isn't one.
- spiek 13y agoFSOG (nice acronym, it's a pain in the ass to type out) demonstrates that there a wide segment of the population that is willing and interested in reading material which the government is attempting to criminalize. I misspoke when I said they "are now" criminals, I should have said they will be criminals. >Which is probably something that the UK government does not want happening again. Also, this gets my hackles up. Why should they not want it to happen again, besides pointless and absurd moralizing? People have been writing smut for thousands of years. The first books printed with Gutenberg's printing press? Porn. What's different now?
- DanBC 13y agoIt is not banned in the UK. The proposed laws are stupid, but making shit up is not useful for discussion. We went through the same nonsense when the Sexual Offences Act 2003 was introduced, and yet we can still walk into shops and buy American Beauty and other films.
- peterwwillis 13y agoFood for thought: The Bible contains depictions of rape. Maybe this law isn't so bad after all...
- quantumpotato_ 13y agoThat will be interesting.
- deelowe 13y agoHow much of this is the old political trick of creating a law that is overly broad and nuanced only to come back and refine it to something slightly more specific later? Perhaps the plan all along has been to create something that will cause outrage so that people don't complain when the next version comes around that's only slightly better, but still worse off than before.
- petercooper 13y agoThat was broadly true of British obscenity laws for decades (centuries?). You couldn't publish anything that was obscene or that could disturb people but just what that meant was poorly defined and pretty much up to judges and juries. I actually kinda like that typically British approach though since it allows tastes to move with the times without actually rewriting any laws. What's "obscene" in 2013 is not the same as in 1940, for example, but it does take court cases to set precedents.
- Fizzadar 13y agoCameron was looking good until recently with his crackdown (however slight) on our disgraceful benefit system. And now he looks to censor the population under the guise of protecting children (teaching them how to protect themselves is probably a better option). This country is rapidly going downhill as our freedoms are slowly reduced. -- That said, an opt-in porn filter for parents is always going to be a good/useful thing. But we all know any determined individual (and I'd suspect many young-ish people) will bypass these blockades in no time at all, just as we have with Kickass/TPB.
- laichzeit0 13y agoWow, what a nanny state.
- oneeyedpigeon 13y ago... compared to?
- cmircea 13y agoSomalia.
- auctiontheory 13y ago"Possess" should also be in quotes, as this law applies to online pr0n.
- idw 13y agoIt's likely that this will be an extension of s63 of existing 'extreme pornography' ban in s63 etc. of the Criminal Justice and Immigration Act 2008. http://www.legislation.gov.uk/ukpga/2008/4/part/5/crossheading/pornography-etc http://www.legislation.gov.uk/ukpga/2008/4/part/5/crossheadi... That only covers images (including video) and does not cover films that have been classified as a 15, 18 etc., i.e. most commercial/cinema films.