12 ms·

Art prodigy poses 'ethical nightmare' for parents

137 points by nekojima 13y ago

deleted 13y ago
[deleted]
jliechti1 13y ago
"He's a very lucky boy, but as parents we just have to say no to a lot of things to give him a normal life. The most important thing is that he can relate to his peers and not be seen as any different." It's interesting how many people with "normal" lives desire to live in the limelight, yet those who are already there just seek to be normal. Is relating to your peers and not being seen as any different the most important thing?
- anug 13y ago
  Typical YC response.
  - scribu 13y ago
    Without describing in what way it's "typical" (I presume in a bad way), this comment isn't helpful at all.
    - rmk2 13y ago
      I'll bite (woe is me, poor karma...) HN is all about showing people how extraordinary you are (or at least, how extraordinary you think you are). Normal is equated with a state of stasis that needs to be overcome (or, as the cool kids/rockstars/codeninjas[sic] call it, "disrupted"). The same HN regularly upvotes and heavily "discusses" stories about people who were "screwed over by the normal [education] system", who were too special without other people realising. HN is about getting rich, or at least richer than average (or, as the boring average-Joe lives are sometimes called, normal), about creating, sticking out, being the one-in-a-million, yes-you-can wholesale embodiment of the American Dream(tm), according to which we will all one day be rich and famous if we only work hard enough with as little interference as possible (regulation is a horror, HORROR, I tell you) from state, ethics or, worse even, "average" users, the normal users very much akin to imbeciles. Is it a surprise many here do not want (or cannot?) understand why aspiring to be "normal" and to fit in might be a diserable thing for other people?
      - wtvanhest 13y ago
        I agree with you partially, and upvoted you, but part of what makes HN great is that it makes me feel normal to be ultra motivated. Maybe some people make pompous comments, or complain about first world/high class problems, but it is the only place I have found, on the net or otherwise which the ultra motivated outweigh those seeking to fit in.
      - georgemcbay 13y ago
        I spend a fair amount of time on HN (probably too much) and write lots of comments here and enjoy a pretty good amount of upvotes and I'm a big fan of being normal and not much of a limelight seeker. I'm also basically a socialist and roll my eyes at most calls for deregulation of (whatever). I'm not sure you can lump all of HN so cleanly into one bucket.
        rmk2 13y ago
        My comment might involve a certain mount of hyperbole. In this case, it is exactly lumping all of HN together for the sake of making a point. I see this as a function of self-reflexion and self-critique, which no functioning system in my opinion can do without. Don't forget that I am also a member of this site, I read the articles, I vote and I post. This obviously suggests that HN is not homogenous but instead can serve as a platform for differing opinions. I do think, however, that my hyperbole describes a certain active (and, dare I say very vocal?) portion of the posters here. If you (and some of the other posters who have replied below) don't fall within that group then that is a good thing.
        nknighthb 13y ago
        You describe a certain very vocal portion of the American public. I'm not sure their proportions on HN are significantly out of whack.
      - deleted 13y ago
        [deleted]
      - nknighthb 13y ago
- Fishkins 13y ago
  "relating to your peers" is too narrow of a phrase, but it seems likely having satisfying interpersonal relationships of some sort is very important. I would say it's the most important thing after basic necessities for survival. I don't, however, think "not [being] seen as any different" is necessary for that.
  - robryan 13y ago
    It is possible though that this kid might not relate to the kids in the local neighborhood that well. With the Internet now though I think this starts to become less of a problem, if you are an outlier you can now relate to like minded outliers online or at interest based meet ups.
- sliverstorm 13y ago
  My conclusion has been that those who are "normal" want some fame- they don't want to be splattered across tabloids everywhere, they just want people to know their name and what they do. People who are super famous probably want the same thing- not to be unknown, but maybe a little less famous.
- arjie 13y ago
  Everyone seeks normalcy in certain aspects, and fame in others. You'd be hard pressed to find many amongst those who wish to live in the limelight who would want every moment of their lives photographed so that the tiniest of their mistakes can be displayed in full colour in public. And unless you're Perelman, most people want some recognition for the things they do that they're proud of. Would it be nice for this child to be recognized for his talent? Yes. Would it be nice for his peers to see him as some painting freak? No.
tokenadult 13y ago
Thanks to the first comment posted here, which pulled out the key quote from the parents, "The most important thing is that he can relate to his peers and not be seen as any different." I hope that is just a journalist quotation of an imprecise statement during live conversation in an interview. By contrast, as soon as I knew that my beloved and I would marry into an "interracial" marriage (she is from east Asia, and I am an American of a mixed assortment of European ancestry), I figured that my children would have no hope to "not be seen as any different." (I later learned my children actually look like typical members of the local population in some central Asian countries that none of us have ever visited.) I also had Taiwanese friends tell me even before I met my wife that if I married a local girl and had "mixed-blood" children (that is a polite term over there, not an offensive term), that the children would surely be smarter and better-looking than most children. I'll leave to other people to judge both the intelligence and the personal appearance of my children. But what I very intentionally did in bringing up my children was plan to give them support so that whatever differences they have with other people in their childhood environments--whether height, weight, hair color, low IQ, high IQ, physical weakness, athletic prowess, or whatever it would be--they would still be cherished as our children. I haven't wanted my children to be other than who they are. Yes, everyone should indeed "relate to his peers" and not be arrogant or aloof. Everyone should cherish everybody else's differences. But that also means children ought to be able to follow the life path that fits them best after the shuffle of genes they receive from their parents, the influences of their early childhood, and the constraints of their youthful circumstances. A great artist shouldn't have to set aside his painting to have buddies in the neighborhood. A young hacker shouldn't be told to set aside the computer and play Little League baseball. To each their own. It happens that my children grew up in an environment in which most of their acquaintances are supportive of young people who pursue their own passions, and they haven't had to be ground into sameness to have peers who like them.
- foobarbazqux 13y ago
  > my beloved and I would marry into an "interracial" marriage > whatever differences they have with other people in their childhood environments--whether height, weight, hair color, low IQ, high IQ, physical weakness, athletic prowess, or whatever it would be You seem to have bought into the fallacy of scientific racism. In terms of population biology, we all belong to the same race, Homo sapiens sapiens. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Scientific_racism https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Scientific_racism
joshfraser 13y ago
I'm glad that my parents never pushed for me to be "normal".
- rfnslyr 13y ago
  What superpowers do you possess?
  - joshfraser 13y ago
    Just the confidence to know it's okay to think outside the box and color outside the lines.
    - arjie 13y ago
      I daresay this kid will grow up with that confidence as well. The normalcy they're speaking about is likely normal human interactions with other children his age. A friend of the Culkin family recounted in an interview how people would stare at the young Macaulay Culkin on the street, and the actor himself has expressed a desire to have had a more 'normal' life. The normal they want for their child is unlikely to involve suppression of his creativity, and is likely to involve supporting him as he deals with his fame and his peers' reaction to it.
RataDeDosPatas 13y ago
This kid is a genius. Which at the same time raises some flags. Makes me wonder if it really is him creating the paintings. What happened to the 10,000 hour rule and all that saying that there are no real instant successes? How did he get this good? How long did it take? Well, I'm off to answer my own questions in google.
- eshvk 13y ago
  > What happened to the 10,000 hour rule and all that saying that there are no real instant successes? Just because some moron creates a heuristic that crudely models reality doesn't mean that nature has to follow that heuristic.
  - w1ntermute 13y ago
    Gladwell is certainly a polarizing figure, but in no way does he deserve the epithet "moron".
    - eshvk 13y ago
      Gladwell writes very well; the content involves carefully layering anecdotal evidence, oversimplification and over-generalisation of scientific theory (that is already brittle) -- bad science. I stand by the epithet.
- mehwoot 13y ago
  Mozart began composing at the age of five. By the time he was 8 he had written around 16 pieces that survive to today, including a Symphony.
- moocowduckquack 13y ago
  "What happened to the 10,000 hour rule and all that saying that there are no real instant successes?" Mozart.
  - duskwuff 13y ago
mdda 13y ago
I just wanted to point out that this is a UK family, talking to the UK press - so their attitudes (IMHO) may not be being interpreted correctly in 'American'. (I'm from the UK, but have lived in NYC for over a decade). I strongly doubt they're pressuring their child to be normal : Eccentricity and 'being interesting' are cherished qualities in the UK. I'm guessing that what they're saying is that they're making sure he has 'space' so that when he wants to do ordinary stuff, and that there's no-one whispering in his ear that he needn't be interesting in playing football (soccer) because he's a genius with a higher calling. Also, maybe the art thing is just a childhood phase, and that's Ok by them too. From what I see from the people around me in my office, attitudes to children (and their education, aspirations, etc) are very different US vs UK.
- andrewcooke 13y ago
  yeah, this seemed quite a decent approach from the family to me (english). the idea that they're not being supportive of their kid seems way off the mark. they're just trying to find the right balance, as far as i can see. i wonder how bad we are at interpreting nuance in american media? maybe honey boo boo isn't a parenting guide?
- GhotiFish 13y ago
  There are people who are viewing these parents negatively? That has got to be luckiest boy on the planet.
  - mdda 13y ago
    The top comment at the moment (by tokenadult) expresses the hope that the story misquotes the parents when they say "The most important thing is that he can relate to his peers and not be seen as any different." My guess is that is exactly what they said, and they didn't mean that they'd do anything that discouraged their child at all. It's just a case of cross-cultural mis-communication going on. Another case in point : I'd say that his paintings are 'pretty good' (which is high praise in the UK), whereas in the US 'genius' gets handed out far too easily (to my ears).
  - arjie 13y ago
rdouble 13y ago
I've found this story a bit odd because if a child even just a few years older made paintings like these, they would maybe win a prize, but certainly not sell for $70,000 a piece.
- wmf 13y ago
  Like all famous artists, I suspect it's equal parts talent, marketing, and information cascade.
- moocowduckquack 13y ago
  Is very hard to make that kind of judgement from low resolution online photographs of paintings.
  - rdouble 13y ago
    It isn't, really. It's typical Bob Ross stuff that doesn't have any market outside of art fairs and repos for hotel chains.
    - sk5t 13y ago
      I'll wager that neither of us understands the market for impressionism.
      - rdouble 13y ago
        That's true. I certainly don't understand who it is that is buying these paintings.
    - moocowduckquack 13y ago
      "typical Bob Ross stuff that doesn't have any market outside of art fairs" Well, you would seem on the face of it to be completely and utterly wrong on that score, at least according to the people buying his paintings. Out of interest, do you paint much?
      - 13y ago
fernly 13y ago
Prodigies are extremely rare but do legitimately happen: kids who on first touching a piano or other instrument, play complete tunes etc. Kieron Williamson is in a list of visual arts prodigies[0]. Nevertheless the maturity and use of sophisticated technique, esp. in the painting of the grandfather, is startling. The list of musical prodigies is longer.[1] W.A.Mozart made his performing debut at 4 and wrote compositions at age 5. [2] [0]http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_child_prodigies#Visual_arts http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_child_prodigies#Visual_... [1]http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_music_prodigies http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_music_prodigies [2]http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wolfgang_Amadeus_Mozart http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wolfgang_Amadeus_Mozart
rorrr2 13y ago
First world problems.
- acangiano 13y ago
  Which are valid problems. See the related informal fallacy, "Appeal to worse problems": http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Appeal_to_worse_problems http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Appeal_to_worse_problems
bane 13y ago
"As a child star, Coogan earned an estimated $3 to $4 million ($48 million to $65 million adjusted for 2012 dollars), but the money was spent by his mother and stepfather, Arthur Bernstein, on extravagances such as fur coats, diamonds, and expensive cars. Coogan's mother and stepfather claimed Jackie was having fun and thought he was playing. She stated, "No promises were ever made to give Jackie anything. Every dollar a kid earns before he is 21 belongs to his parents. Jackie will not get a cent of his earnings",[5] and claimed that "Jackie was a bad boy."" http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jackie_Coogan http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jackie_Coogan
banachtarski 13y ago
"He's a very lucky boy, but as parents we just have to say no to a lot of things to give him a normal life. The most important thing is that he can relate to his peers and not be seen as any different." I can't say I agree with this at all.
- alextingle 13y ago
  You think it would be better if his whole life/personality was fucked up by the freakish success in his early years?
  - banachtarski 13y ago
    The opposite extreme is not always better than the current extreme. Nobody said to indulge him completely. I am just saying that complete fear that your child will be perceived as "different" is stupid. *edit: By the way, I charge you guilty of employing the "black-and-white" logical fallacy and request that you stop in the future.
ChuckMcM 13y ago
I find the stories of kids who sue their parents for misusing their funds quite sad. I never could figure out what the right way to deal with that was, put the money in t-bills and while 'safe' you get sued for being a poor financial manager. Put it into a fund and have it lose value and find yourself in trouble again. You can ask your child's wishes but if they want to spend it all on candy do you? The whole live a normal life thing is pretty straight forward if all the money gets whisked away into some trust account somewhere. When you start trying to use it to "improve" things where it often causes problems.
- nknighthb 13y ago
  When I've heard about such lawsuits, they've involved objectively unreasonable actions. Junk bonds, the latest get-rich-quick scheme from a loser brother, or just plain extravagant spending for the benefit of the parents would be examples. Putting everything in t-bills, not so much.
ForrestN 13y ago
Just a bit of context from a person who works in contemporary art: the question of "exploitation" is complicated by the fact that a career like this is probably based in some part on exploiting people who don't understand the state of art or the mainstream art market. The notion, for example, that he is comparable to Monet is absurd, not only because this kid isn't a good painter but also because it would be impossible to make Monet-like paintings today and be anything like Monet was during his time. The questions Monet was answering are no longer the questions anyone is asking art to answer. If people are being told that this boy is a genius, or that he is likely to be an important artist in the future, they are being defrauded. Whether his parents are participating in the fraud or are being misled themselves probably has some bearing on how much we should trust them as parents I think (neither being a great endorsement but the former being much worse than the latter).
- xal 13y ago
  So how do you square that with the financial success?
  - ForrestN 13y ago
    Easily: customers who have lots of money, who have a predisposition to prefer "traditional" artwork, and who believe the plausible idea that a child who is being recognized (according to the dealer) as a "prodigy" is likely to be only more recognized the older he gets, which would mean higher prices. In reality, there are no more "prodigies" in the field of art because it has been completely de-skilled. Likewise no one who paints in this genre and with this perspective (see the "blobs on canvas" quote) will ever be included in the way that is necessary for his career to develop and his prices to be justified by the larger art market. He won't be able to show in mainstream museums, he won't be represented by credible dealers, and he will exist to whatever extent he can in an economy built mostly around exploiting people who don't know anything about the field.
    - defen 13y ago
      > In reality, there are no more "prodigies" in the field of art because it has been completely de-skilled. That's a rather provocative statement! I assume by "art" you mean "painting"? Or did you really mean it more broadly? I don't have any professional or formal training in this field so forgive me if I'm misinterpreting or retreading old ground here, but doesn't your statement seem to imply that there is no room for beauty in contemporary art? If it is completely de-skilled, "anyone" can make art, and so it will only be valuable to the extent that it makes some sort of statement, or is perceived as valuable by collectors / experts.
Mordor 13y ago
There is another option - don't sell the paintings.
sytelus 13y ago
Article doesn't describe the most interesting part: Does these abilities appear spontaneously at early age? How child gets in to something so intensively? Was there any training and how much? But another article from Guardian does shade some light on this: http://www.guardian.co.uk/lifeandstyle/2009/dec/29/boy-paints-like-old-master http://www.guardian.co.uk/lifeandstyle/2009/dec/29/boy-paint... The truth is far more innocent. Two years ago, a serious accident had forced Keith to stop work and turn his hobby – collecting art – into an occupation. The accident also stopped Keith racing around outside with his son. Confined to a flat with no garden, surrounded by paintings and, like any small boy, probably influenced by his dad, Kieron decided to take up drawing. Now, father and son are learning about art together. At first, Kieron's art was pretty much like any other five-year-old's. But he quickly progressed and was soon asking questions that his parents couldn't answer. "Kieron wanted to know the technicalities of art and how to put a painting together," says Michelle. Hearing of Kieron's promise, one local artist, Carol Ann Pennington, offered him some tips. Since then, he has had lessons with other Norfolk-based painters, including Brian Ryder and his favourite, Tony Garner. Garner, a professional artist, has taught more than 1,000 adults over the last few decades and Kieron, he says, is head and shoulders above everyone. "He doesn't say very much, he doesn't ask very much, he just looks. He's a very visual learner. If I did a picture with most students, they will copy it but Kieron is different. He will copy it and then he will Kieronise it," he says. "It might be a bit naive at the moment but there's a lovely freshness about what he does. The confidence that this little chap has got – he just doesn't see any danger."

137 points by nekojima 13y ago

deleted 13y ago

[deleted]

"He's a very lucky boy, but as parents we just have to say no to a lot of things to give him a normal life. The most important thing is that he can relate to his peers and not be seen as any different." It's interesting how many people with "normal" lives desire to live in the limelight, yet those who are already there just seek to be normal. Is relating to your peers and not being seen as any different the most important thing?

anug 13y ago
Typical YC response.
- scribu 13y ago
  Without describing in what way it's "typical" (I presume in a bad way), this comment isn't helpful at all.
  - rmk2 13y ago
    I'll bite (woe is me, poor karma...) HN is all about showing people how extraordinary you are (or at least, how extraordinary you think you are). Normal is equated with a state of stasis that needs to be overcome (or, as the cool kids/rockstars/codeninjas[sic] call it, "disrupted"). The same HN regularly upvotes and heavily "discusses" stories about people who were "screwed over by the normal [education] system", who were too special without other people realising. HN is about getting rich, or at least richer than average (or, as the boring average-Joe lives are sometimes called, normal), about creating, sticking out, being the one-in-a-million, yes-you-can wholesale embodiment of the American Dream(tm), according to which we will all one day be rich and famous if we only work hard enough with as little interference as possible (regulation is a horror, HORROR, I tell you) from state, ethics or, worse even, "average" users, the normal users very much akin to imbeciles. Is it a surprise many here do not want (or cannot?) understand why aspiring to be "normal" and to fit in might be a diserable thing for other people?
    - wtvanhest 13y ago
      I agree with you partially, and upvoted you, but part of what makes HN great is that it makes me feel normal to be ultra motivated. Maybe some people make pompous comments, or complain about first world/high class problems, but it is the only place I have found, on the net or otherwise which the ultra motivated outweigh those seeking to fit in.
    - georgemcbay 13y ago
      I spend a fair amount of time on HN (probably too much) and write lots of comments here and enjoy a pretty good amount of upvotes and I'm a big fan of being normal and not much of a limelight seeker. I'm also basically a socialist and roll my eyes at most calls for deregulation of (whatever). I'm not sure you can lump all of HN so cleanly into one bucket.
      - rmk2 13y ago
        My comment might involve a certain mount of hyperbole. In this case, it is exactly lumping all of HN together for the sake of making a point. I see this as a function of self-reflexion and self-critique, which no functioning system in my opinion can do without. Don't forget that I am also a member of this site, I read the articles, I vote and I post. This obviously suggests that HN is not homogenous but instead can serve as a platform for differing opinions. I do think, however, that my hyperbole describes a certain active (and, dare I say very vocal?) portion of the posters here. If you (and some of the other posters who have replied below) don't fall within that group then that is a good thing.
        nknighthb 13y ago
        You describe a certain very vocal portion of the American public. I'm not sure their proportions on HN are significantly out of whack.
    - deleted 13y ago
      [deleted]
    - nknighthb 13y ago
Fishkins 13y ago
"relating to your peers" is too narrow of a phrase, but it seems likely having satisfying interpersonal relationships of some sort is very important. I would say it's the most important thing after basic necessities for survival. I don't, however, think "not [being] seen as any different" is necessary for that.
- robryan 13y ago
  It is possible though that this kid might not relate to the kids in the local neighborhood that well. With the Internet now though I think this starts to become less of a problem, if you are an outlier you can now relate to like minded outliers online or at interest based meet ups.
sliverstorm 13y ago
My conclusion has been that those who are "normal" want some fame- they don't want to be splattered across tabloids everywhere, they just want people to know their name and what they do. People who are super famous probably want the same thing- not to be unknown, but maybe a little less famous.
arjie 13y ago
Everyone seeks normalcy in certain aspects, and fame in others. You'd be hard pressed to find many amongst those who wish to live in the limelight who would want every moment of their lives photographed so that the tiniest of their mistakes can be displayed in full colour in public. And unless you're Perelman, most people want some recognition for the things they do that they're proud of. Would it be nice for this child to be recognized for his talent? Yes. Would it be nice for his peers to see him as some painting freak? No.

tokenadult 13y ago

Thanks to the first comment posted here, which pulled out the key quote from the parents, "The most important thing is that he can relate to his peers and not be seen as any different." I hope that is just a journalist quotation of an imprecise statement during live conversation in an interview. By contrast, as soon as I knew that my beloved and I would marry into an "interracial" marriage (she is from east Asia, and I am an American of a mixed assortment of European ancestry), I figured that my children would have no hope to "not be seen as any different." (I later learned my children actually look like typical members of the local population in some central Asian countries that none of us have ever visited.) I also had Taiwanese friends tell me even before I met my wife that if I married a local girl and had "mixed-blood" children (that is a polite term over there, not an offensive term), that the children would surely be smarter and better-looking than most children. I'll leave to other people to judge both the intelligence and the personal appearance of my children. But what I very intentionally did in bringing up my children was plan to give them support so that whatever differences they have with other people in their childhood environments--whether height, weight, hair color, low IQ, high IQ, physical weakness, athletic prowess, or whatever it would be--they would still be cherished as our children. I haven't wanted my children to be other than who they are. Yes, everyone should indeed "relate to his peers" and not be arrogant or aloof. Everyone should cherish everybody else's differences. But that also means children ought to be able to follow the life path that fits them best after the shuffle of genes they receive from their parents, the influences of their early childhood, and the constraints of their youthful circumstances. A great artist shouldn't have to set aside his painting to have buddies in the neighborhood. A young hacker shouldn't be told to set aside the computer and play Little League baseball. To each their own. It happens that my children grew up in an environment in which most of their acquaintances are supportive of young people who pursue their own passions, and they haven't had to be ground into sameness to have peers who like them.

foobarbazqux 13y ago
> my beloved and I would marry into an "interracial" marriage > whatever differences they have with other people in their childhood environments--whether height, weight, hair color, low IQ, high IQ, physical weakness, athletic prowess, or whatever it would be You seem to have bought into the fallacy of scientific racism. In terms of population biology, we all belong to the same race, Homo sapiens sapiens. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Scientific_racism https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Scientific_racism

joshfraser 13y ago

I'm glad that my parents never pushed for me to be "normal".

rfnslyr 13y ago
What superpowers do you possess?
- joshfraser 13y ago
  Just the confidence to know it's okay to think outside the box and color outside the lines.
  - arjie 13y ago
    I daresay this kid will grow up with that confidence as well. The normalcy they're speaking about is likely normal human interactions with other children his age. A friend of the Culkin family recounted in an interview how people would stare at the young Macaulay Culkin on the street, and the actor himself has expressed a desire to have had a more 'normal' life. The normal they want for their child is unlikely to involve suppression of his creativity, and is likely to involve supporting him as he deals with his fame and his peers' reaction to it.

RataDeDosPatas 13y ago

This kid is a genius. Which at the same time raises some flags. Makes me wonder if it really is him creating the paintings. What happened to the 10,000 hour rule and all that saying that there are no real instant successes? How did he get this good? How long did it take? Well, I'm off to answer my own questions in google.

eshvk 13y ago
> What happened to the 10,000 hour rule and all that saying that there are no real instant successes? Just because some moron creates a heuristic that crudely models reality doesn't mean that nature has to follow that heuristic.
- w1ntermute 13y ago
  Gladwell is certainly a polarizing figure, but in no way does he deserve the epithet "moron".
  - eshvk 13y ago
    Gladwell writes very well; the content involves carefully layering anecdotal evidence, oversimplification and over-generalisation of scientific theory (that is already brittle) -- bad science. I stand by the epithet.
mehwoot 13y ago
Mozart began composing at the age of five. By the time he was 8 he had written around 16 pieces that survive to today, including a Symphony.
moocowduckquack 13y ago
"What happened to the 10,000 hour rule and all that saying that there are no real instant successes?" Mozart.
- duskwuff 13y ago

mdda 13y ago

I just wanted to point out that this is a UK family, talking to the UK press - so their attitudes (IMHO) may not be being interpreted correctly in 'American'. (I'm from the UK, but have lived in NYC for over a decade). I strongly doubt they're pressuring their child to be normal : Eccentricity and 'being interesting' are cherished qualities in the UK. I'm guessing that what they're saying is that they're making sure he has 'space' so that when he wants to do ordinary stuff, and that there's no-one whispering in his ear that he needn't be interesting in playing football (soccer) because he's a genius with a higher calling. Also, maybe the art thing is just a childhood phase, and that's Ok by them too. From what I see from the people around me in my office, attitudes to children (and their education, aspirations, etc) are very different US vs UK.

andrewcooke 13y ago
yeah, this seemed quite a decent approach from the family to me (english). the idea that they're not being supportive of their kid seems way off the mark. they're just trying to find the right balance, as far as i can see. i wonder how bad we are at interpreting nuance in american media? maybe honey boo boo isn't a parenting guide?
GhotiFish 13y ago
There are people who are viewing these parents negatively? That has got to be luckiest boy on the planet.
- mdda 13y ago
  The top comment at the moment (by tokenadult) expresses the hope that the story misquotes the parents when they say "The most important thing is that he can relate to his peers and not be seen as any different." My guess is that is exactly what they said, and they didn't mean that they'd do anything that discouraged their child at all. It's just a case of cross-cultural mis-communication going on. Another case in point : I'd say that his paintings are 'pretty good' (which is high praise in the UK), whereas in the US 'genius' gets handed out far too easily (to my ears).
- arjie 13y ago

rdouble 13y ago

I've found this story a bit odd because if a child even just a few years older made paintings like these, they would maybe win a prize, but certainly not sell for $70,000 a piece.

wmf 13y ago
Like all famous artists, I suspect it's equal parts talent, marketing, and information cascade.
moocowduckquack 13y ago
Is very hard to make that kind of judgement from low resolution online photographs of paintings.
- rdouble 13y ago
  It isn't, really. It's typical Bob Ross stuff that doesn't have any market outside of art fairs and repos for hotel chains.
  - sk5t 13y ago
    I'll wager that neither of us understands the market for impressionism.
    - rdouble 13y ago
      That's true. I certainly don't understand who it is that is buying these paintings.
  - moocowduckquack 13y ago
    "typical Bob Ross stuff that doesn't have any market outside of art fairs" Well, you would seem on the face of it to be completely and utterly wrong on that score, at least according to the people buying his paintings. Out of interest, do you paint much?
    - 13y ago

fernly 13y ago

Prodigies are extremely rare but do legitimately happen: kids who on first touching a piano or other instrument, play complete tunes etc. Kieron Williamson is in a list of visual arts prodigies[0]. Nevertheless the maturity and use of sophisticated technique, esp. in the painting of the grandfather, is startling. The list of musical prodigies is longer.[1] W.A.Mozart made his performing debut at 4 and wrote compositions at age 5. [2] [0]http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_child_prodigies#Visual_arts http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_child_prodigies#Visual_... [1]http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_music_prodigies http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_music_prodigies [2]http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wolfgang_Amadeus_Mozart http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wolfgang_Amadeus_Mozart

rorrr2 13y ago

First world problems.

acangiano 13y ago
Which are valid problems. See the related informal fallacy, "Appeal to worse problems": http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Appeal_to_worse_problems http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Appeal_to_worse_problems

bane 13y ago

"As a child star, Coogan earned an estimated $3 to $4 million ($48 million to $65 million adjusted for 2012 dollars), but the money was spent by his mother and stepfather, Arthur Bernstein, on extravagances such as fur coats, diamonds, and expensive cars. Coogan's mother and stepfather claimed Jackie was having fun and thought he was playing. She stated, "No promises were ever made to give Jackie anything. Every dollar a kid earns before he is 21 belongs to his parents. Jackie will not get a cent of his earnings",[5] and claimed that "Jackie was a bad boy."" http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jackie_Coogan http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jackie_Coogan

banachtarski 13y ago

alextingle 13y ago
You think it would be better if his whole life/personality was fucked up by the freakish success in his early years?
- banachtarski 13y ago
  The opposite extreme is not always better than the current extreme. Nobody said to indulge him completely. I am just saying that complete fear that your child will be perceived as "different" is stupid. *edit: By the way, I charge you guilty of employing the "black-and-white" logical fallacy and request that you stop in the future.

ChuckMcM 13y ago

I find the stories of kids who sue their parents for misusing their funds quite sad. I never could figure out what the right way to deal with that was, put the money in t-bills and while 'safe' you get sued for being a poor financial manager. Put it into a fund and have it lose value and find yourself in trouble again. You can ask your child's wishes but if they want to spend it all on candy do you? The whole live a normal life thing is pretty straight forward if all the money gets whisked away into some trust account somewhere. When you start trying to use it to "improve" things where it often causes problems.

nknighthb 13y ago
When I've heard about such lawsuits, they've involved objectively unreasonable actions. Junk bonds, the latest get-rich-quick scheme from a loser brother, or just plain extravagant spending for the benefit of the parents would be examples. Putting everything in t-bills, not so much.

ForrestN 13y ago

Just a bit of context from a person who works in contemporary art: the question of "exploitation" is complicated by the fact that a career like this is probably based in some part on exploiting people who don't understand the state of art or the mainstream art market. The notion, for example, that he is comparable to Monet is absurd, not only because this kid isn't a good painter but also because it would be impossible to make Monet-like paintings today and be anything like Monet was during his time. The questions Monet was answering are no longer the questions anyone is asking art to answer. If people are being told that this boy is a genius, or that he is likely to be an important artist in the future, they are being defrauded. Whether his parents are participating in the fraud or are being misled themselves probably has some bearing on how much we should trust them as parents I think (neither being a great endorsement but the former being much worse than the latter).

xal 13y ago
So how do you square that with the financial success?
- ForrestN 13y ago
  Easily: customers who have lots of money, who have a predisposition to prefer "traditional" artwork, and who believe the plausible idea that a child who is being recognized (according to the dealer) as a "prodigy" is likely to be only more recognized the older he gets, which would mean higher prices. In reality, there are no more "prodigies" in the field of art because it has been completely de-skilled. Likewise no one who paints in this genre and with this perspective (see the "blobs on canvas" quote) will ever be included in the way that is necessary for his career to develop and his prices to be justified by the larger art market. He won't be able to show in mainstream museums, he won't be represented by credible dealers, and he will exist to whatever extent he can in an economy built mostly around exploiting people who don't know anything about the field.
  - defen 13y ago
    > In reality, there are no more "prodigies" in the field of art because it has been completely de-skilled. That's a rather provocative statement! I assume by "art" you mean "painting"? Or did you really mean it more broadly? I don't have any professional or formal training in this field so forgive me if I'm misinterpreting or retreading old ground here, but doesn't your statement seem to imply that there is no room for beauty in contemporary art? If it is completely de-skilled, "anyone" can make art, and so it will only be valuable to the extent that it makes some sort of statement, or is perceived as valuable by collectors / experts.

Mordor 13y ago

There is another option - don't sell the paintings.

sytelus 13y ago

Article doesn't describe the most interesting part: Does these abilities appear spontaneously at early age? How child gets in to something so intensively? Was there any training and how much? But another article from Guardian does shade some light on this: http://www.guardian.co.uk/lifeandstyle/2009/dec/29/boy-paints-like-old-master http://www.guardian.co.uk/lifeandstyle/2009/dec/29/boy-paint... The truth is far more innocent. Two years ago, a serious accident had forced Keith to stop work and turn his hobby – collecting art – into an occupation. The accident also stopped Keith racing around outside with his son. Confined to a flat with no garden, surrounded by paintings and, like any small boy, probably influenced by his dad, Kieron decided to take up drawing. Now, father and son are learning about art together. At first, Kieron's art was pretty much like any other five-year-old's. But he quickly progressed and was soon asking questions that his parents couldn't answer. "Kieron wanted to know the technicalities of art and how to put a painting together," says Michelle. Hearing of Kieron's promise, one local artist, Carol Ann Pennington, offered him some tips. Since then, he has had lessons with other Norfolk-based painters, including Brian Ryder and his favourite, Tony Garner. Garner, a professional artist, has taught more than 1,000 adults over the last few decades and Kieron, he says, is head and shoulders above everyone. "He doesn't say very much, he doesn't ask very much, he just looks. He's a very visual learner. If I did a picture with most students, they will copy it but Kieron is different. He will copy it and then he will Kieronise it," he says. "It might be a bit naive at the moment but there's a lovely freshness about what he does. The confidence that this little chap has got – he just doesn't see any danger."