5 ms·

I still understand "hacker" to mean someone who re-tasks something from one use to another. I dont see it as computer specific. Computer hackers are a subset o

by alan_cx 13y ago

I still understand "hacker" to mean someone who re-tasks something from one use to another. I dont see it as computer specific. Computer hackers are a subset of that. They access or attack systems via routes that were not designed for them to use and exploit in that way. Coding hackers use existing code and modify it for another purpose. I don't see a coder who starts with a blank page and libraries or APIs as a hacker as such. They are creators, using tool provided for intended purpose. Too widen it: an art hacker, for example, would take old bits of metal and make a sculpture. An artist starts with a blank page and raw materials. People who fix cars with anything around them in Africa or Cuba too are hackers. Im not sure of the details, but when Apollo whatever number went wrong and they had to help the astronauts get home, that was hacking. People who fit V8 engines to small FWD cars; hackers. I also think its about targeted expertise, rather than over all expertise. Hackers learn the small part they need to re-task, but don't have over all knowledge. As well as that, I think its about cutting through the surrounding crap. Getting the job done regardless of convention, rules, regulation, and procedure. So, hacking is about how you get the job done. That is how I see it, but of course in all that is room for debate and many fine lines to argue over. Ultimately to me, its a universal mentality. Macgyver was an ultimate hacker!!!!

bittired 13y ago
> I still understand "hacker" to mean someone who re-tasks something from one use to another. I dont see it as computer specific. So, if I beat someone with a phone, I'm a hacker? > when Apollo whatever number went wrong 13? Or was Zeus with the Apollo you speak and there were wacky antics with a man in a thick mustache? I think that was "whatever P.I.", but I'm not sure. > I don't see a coder who starts with a blank page and libraries or APIs as a hacker as such. This I totally agree with you on. Every developer that creates something new is not a hacker. Not long after PG started the site, it became a watering hole for the top minds in development and technology. Then people like me joined (years ago, under different name then), and now it is a more civil form of slashdot mixed with MBA's, lawyers (it seems), and wannabe's. I count myself in the wannabe's group not because I "want to be", but because despite many years in the business, I know I don't pass muster as a "hacker". It's not PG's fault that HN is filled with non-hackers. That is the normal way things devolve with any kind of popular open club. To paraphrase Groucho Marx (because there is apparently no official version of the quote): I don’t want to belong to any club that would accept me as one of its members.
- popee 13y ago
  > So, if I beat someone with a phone, I'm a hacker? Only if you beat him with phone you made or with new kung foo style you created.
- alan_cx 13y ago
  "So, if I beat someone with a phone, I'm a hacker?" LOL, well sort of, yes. Especially if some sort of clever kung fu was used to do so!!! And yes, I thick mustache should be part of the hacker uniform!!!! I count myself as a hacker. I am not highly talented, but I can get stuff done by utilizing bits and pieces of other's creations, or modifying things to fit or work. But I have that mentality that I can apply to most problems. Im not thinking Scrapheap Challenge. To me, those contestants are great hackers, but in a mechanical subset. Dont get me wrong, my "definition" is not perfect, its supposed to be a loose general fit. Er, a hack!!!! Damn. Even my replies are hacks...... I need to go away and have a think about that.
p4bl0 13y ago
Remind me a bit of http://stallman.org/articles/on-hacking.html http://stallman.org/articles/on-hacking.html.
- bittired 13y ago
  This brings up a good question: Is RMS a hacker? He has made important contributions, and at one point could have been considered so, but what has he created lately that is worthy of the title? Some titles like "doctor" are really indicative of the education, not of being a current practitioner, but "hacker" is not one of those titles. Maybe someone should create an official overseeing body of hackers like "The U.S. Board of Hackers" and a social organization called "The Hacking Society" to go with it, and I could go to school and come out and in front of my name on all formal letters would thereafter be "Hacker". But, until then, I think he was but isn't.
  - p4bl0 13y ago
    I don't think it's "fair" to say that someone who initiated the free software movement, wrote the first versions of GCC, GNU Emacs, the core utils, … is not a hacker anymore because he is dedicating his life to something else than coding and coding and coding. I really don't see the need to formalize what a hacker is and who correspond to those criteria, especially the way you present it where it would be tied to one country, which is not really compatible with the hacker culture as I see it.
    - bittired 13y ago
      No, what I was saying was that is how the art of medicine handles the official label of "Doctor". That is country-specific. A doctor from the Caribbean != doctor educated in the U.S. Two different governing boards, and I would opt for not being treated by the latter, not because it guarantees that they are incompetent, but because I would have to question competence. A doctor educated in the U.S. could still be incompetent, but I'd have greater confidence in their education and certification. My point is this: will we consider RMS to be a hacker when he is 98 years old after he has given up coding for years? If he was a doctor, we'd still call him a doctor, but I'm not sure that holds true for hacker. Now, if you call RMS a hacker and enough people do, maybe that is enough to show that he meets the definition still? Is creativity and the ability to write code in C enough when the language and environment has completely changed in the future?
Dogamondo 13y ago
Hah, I was just typing non-parented comment of my own when I glanced down and noticed the parting words of yours. It was to be somewhere along the lines of "Despite Mitnick, Jolie and all the computer-centric epitomes of the term 'hacker', McGyver who we never even saw use a computer, was indeed, the ubiquitous ultimate 'hacker' of 1980's mainstream culture.

by alan_cx 13y ago

bittired 13y ago

> I still understand "hacker" to mean someone who re-tasks something from one use to another. I dont see it as computer specific. So, if I beat someone with a phone, I'm a hacker? > when Apollo whatever number went wrong 13? Or was Zeus with the Apollo you speak and there were wacky antics with a man in a thick mustache? I think that was "whatever P.I.", but I'm not sure. > I don't see a coder who starts with a blank page and libraries or APIs as a hacker as such. This I totally agree with you on. Every developer that creates something new is not a hacker. Not long after PG started the site, it became a watering hole for the top minds in development and technology. Then people like me joined (years ago, under different name then), and now it is a more civil form of slashdot mixed with MBA's, lawyers (it seems), and wannabe's. I count myself in the wannabe's group not because I "want to be", but because despite many years in the business, I know I don't pass muster as a "hacker". It's not PG's fault that HN is filled with non-hackers. That is the normal way things devolve with any kind of popular open club. To paraphrase Groucho Marx (because there is apparently no official version of the quote): I don’t want to belong to any club that would accept me as one of its members.

popee 13y ago
> So, if I beat someone with a phone, I'm a hacker? Only if you beat him with phone you made or with new kung foo style you created.
alan_cx 13y ago
"So, if I beat someone with a phone, I'm a hacker?" LOL, well sort of, yes. Especially if some sort of clever kung fu was used to do so!!! And yes, I thick mustache should be part of the hacker uniform!!!! I count myself as a hacker. I am not highly talented, but I can get stuff done by utilizing bits and pieces of other's creations, or modifying things to fit or work. But I have that mentality that I can apply to most problems. Im not thinking Scrapheap Challenge. To me, those contestants are great hackers, but in a mechanical subset. Dont get me wrong, my "definition" is not perfect, its supposed to be a loose general fit. Er, a hack!!!! Damn. Even my replies are hacks...... I need to go away and have a think about that.

p4bl0 13y ago

Remind me a bit of http://stallman.org/articles/on-hacking.html http://stallman.org/articles/on-hacking.html.

bittired 13y ago
This brings up a good question: Is RMS a hacker? He has made important contributions, and at one point could have been considered so, but what has he created lately that is worthy of the title? Some titles like "doctor" are really indicative of the education, not of being a current practitioner, but "hacker" is not one of those titles. Maybe someone should create an official overseeing body of hackers like "The U.S. Board of Hackers" and a social organization called "The Hacking Society" to go with it, and I could go to school and come out and in front of my name on all formal letters would thereafter be "Hacker". But, until then, I think he was but isn't.
- p4bl0 13y ago
  I don't think it's "fair" to say that someone who initiated the free software movement, wrote the first versions of GCC, GNU Emacs, the core utils, … is not a hacker anymore because he is dedicating his life to something else than coding and coding and coding. I really don't see the need to formalize what a hacker is and who correspond to those criteria, especially the way you present it where it would be tied to one country, which is not really compatible with the hacker culture as I see it.
  - bittired 13y ago
    No, what I was saying was that is how the art of medicine handles the official label of "Doctor". That is country-specific. A doctor from the Caribbean != doctor educated in the U.S. Two different governing boards, and I would opt for not being treated by the latter, not because it guarantees that they are incompetent, but because I would have to question competence. A doctor educated in the U.S. could still be incompetent, but I'd have greater confidence in their education and certification. My point is this: will we consider RMS to be a hacker when he is 98 years old after he has given up coding for years? If he was a doctor, we'd still call him a doctor, but I'm not sure that holds true for hacker. Now, if you call RMS a hacker and enough people do, maybe that is enough to show that he meets the definition still? Is creativity and the ability to write code in C enough when the language and environment has completely changed in the future?

Dogamondo 13y ago

Hah, I was just typing non-parented comment of my own when I glanced down and noticed the parting words of yours. It was to be somewhere along the lines of "Despite Mitnick, Jolie and all the computer-centric epitomes of the term 'hacker', McGyver who we never even saw use a computer, was indeed, the ubiquitous ultimate 'hacker' of 1980's mainstream culture.