4 ms·

I'm not a Gladwell fan, but surely the idea that people in different cultures behave differently is not too surprising, is it? After all, you said yourself tha

I'm not a Gladwell fan, but surely the idea that people in different cultures behave differently is not too surprising, is it? After all, you said yourself that the HN culture is ultra-rational. Or maybe I misunderstood what you are upset about.

chetanahuja 13y ago
The idea that I'm objecting to is that the culturally prescribed behaviour is somehow the root cause of so many plane crashes. The argument I've presented is that Korean and Japanese (and indeed, most Asian cultures -- and just to be clear, Asia includes India too.) are very similar when it comes to deference towards elders, teachers and other people considered socially superior. And yet there's a large gap between the airline safety record of these two cultures. The japanese airlines I mentioned are not just safer than their Korean counterparts, but actually two of the safest airlines in the world. Any theory pinning Korean airlines' safety record on the Korean (really, Asian) culture must also include an explanation of the exactly contrary observation seen in japanese airlines.
- foobarbazqux 13y ago
  Ah okay. Well, Asia is a really big place so let's just say East Asia. I don't know anything about the culture at Japanese airlines vs. the culture at Korean airlines. Obviously they are different? Maybe the deference becomes more of a problem in Korea due to other cultural issues. I agree that blaming it on deference alone doesn't make sense. Wild guess is that Japanese people are more perfectionist? But I don't have any evidence for this, not even anecdotal.
  - chetanahuja 13y ago
    Wild guess is that Japanese people are more perfectionist? ... But I don't have any evidence for this, not even anecdotal. In that case, may I suggest another wild guess? Maybe Japanese pilots are and have been better trained? You know, just to get away from another instance of unnecessary stereotyping.
    - foobarbazqux 13y ago
      Well it's obvious that they are better trained, because there are less crashes. The question is, what factors lead to them having better training? More money? Japan's relationship with America? As for "perfectionism" being an unnecessary stereotype, if you're looking for a cultural explanation you're necessarily dealing with stereotypes. It's just as stereotypical to argue that all of East Asia shares the same culture of deference, just this time it works to your advantage because it means it isn't a factor. It's even relying on stereotypes to talk about the training across an industry. Who's to say that the lives of the individuals in charge aren't fully responsible? Stereotypes can be okay, as long as they are accurate and not applied indiscriminately. I know that Japan has a culture of perfectionism (Google "Japan perfectionism" to start), I just don't know about Korea and what the differences might be.
      - chetanahuja 13y ago
        "As for "perfectionism" being an unnecessary stereotype, if you're looking for a cultural explanation..." Who is looking for cultural explanations ? I pointed out the difference between Japanese and Korean air-safety records specifically to point out the cultural explanations are devoid of any credibility in this case. Ahh right. I get it. You must be of white northern European ancestry. There seems to be a cumpulsive cultural need among your people to explain away performance difference between different human beings based on where they come from.
        foobarbazqux 13y ago
        Training programs are cultures. Japanese pilots are better trained because the culture of their training program is different. What other explanation do you have? If you don't believe culture has an effect on behavior, why do you think my ancestry has anything to do with my behavior? You're also picking and choosing bits of my posts to hear what you want to hear. I specifically asked, "Who's to say that the lives of the individuals in charge aren't fully responsible?"
        13y ago

chetanahuja 13y ago

The idea that I'm objecting to is that the culturally prescribed behaviour is somehow the root cause of so many plane crashes. The argument I've presented is that Korean and Japanese (and indeed, most Asian cultures -- and just to be clear, Asia includes India too.) are very similar when it comes to deference towards elders, teachers and other people considered socially superior. And yet there's a large gap between the airline safety record of these two cultures. The japanese airlines I mentioned are not just safer than their Korean counterparts, but actually two of the safest airlines in the world. Any theory pinning Korean airlines' safety record on the Korean (really, Asian) culture must also include an explanation of the exactly contrary observation seen in japanese airlines.

foobarbazqux 13y ago
Ah okay. Well, Asia is a really big place so let's just say East Asia. I don't know anything about the culture at Japanese airlines vs. the culture at Korean airlines. Obviously they are different? Maybe the deference becomes more of a problem in Korea due to other cultural issues. I agree that blaming it on deference alone doesn't make sense. Wild guess is that Japanese people are more perfectionist? But I don't have any evidence for this, not even anecdotal.
- chetanahuja 13y ago
  Wild guess is that Japanese people are more perfectionist? ... But I don't have any evidence for this, not even anecdotal. In that case, may I suggest another wild guess? Maybe Japanese pilots are and have been better trained? You know, just to get away from another instance of unnecessary stereotyping.
  - foobarbazqux 13y ago
    Well it's obvious that they are better trained, because there are less crashes. The question is, what factors lead to them having better training? More money? Japan's relationship with America? As for "perfectionism" being an unnecessary stereotype, if you're looking for a cultural explanation you're necessarily dealing with stereotypes. It's just as stereotypical to argue that all of East Asia shares the same culture of deference, just this time it works to your advantage because it means it isn't a factor. It's even relying on stereotypes to talk about the training across an industry. Who's to say that the lives of the individuals in charge aren't fully responsible? Stereotypes can be okay, as long as they are accurate and not applied indiscriminately. I know that Japan has a culture of perfectionism (Google "Japan perfectionism" to start), I just don't know about Korea and what the differences might be.
    - chetanahuja 13y ago
      "As for "perfectionism" being an unnecessary stereotype, if you're looking for a cultural explanation..." Who is looking for cultural explanations ? I pointed out the difference between Japanese and Korean air-safety records specifically to point out the cultural explanations are devoid of any credibility in this case. Ahh right. I get it. You must be of white northern European ancestry. There seems to be a cumpulsive cultural need among your people to explain away performance difference between different human beings based on where they come from.
      - foobarbazqux 13y ago
        Training programs are cultures. Japanese pilots are better trained because the culture of their training program is different. What other explanation do you have? If you don't believe culture has an effect on behavior, why do you think my ancestry has anything to do with my behavior? You're also picking and choosing bits of my posts to hear what you want to hear. I specifically asked, "Who's to say that the lives of the individuals in charge aren't fully responsible?"
        13y ago