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I think something that a lot of people overlook in the rush to create the next silicon valley is the role the cities in/around these potential tech hubs play in

I think something that a lot of people overlook in the rush to create the next silicon valley is the role the cities in/around these potential tech hubs play in their rise to prominence. B2C tech startups cannot takeoff in places that don't have really high densities of people because places like that wind up having the people with the mentality to use technology to get ahead/make their lives simpler. Because of the high demand for access to pretty much everything in these kinds of cities, people there will be more likely to try new things to get an edge. Is it an accident that the big consumer startups tend to come from SF, NY, and Boston? This doesn't seem to be a big deal, but as an example you can probably see how it helped foursquare(SF) pull ahead of Gowalla (Austin) in the location app shootout of a few years ago. Its the reason why Austin will probably not become a real startup powerhouse for another couple of years (as more and more people stream in here). B2B is a little easier because businesses have more uniform needs that aren't usually dependent on city characteristics. But then again, a place with a higher concentration of businesses per capita will usually have that edge. I think this is why you see smaller cities having startups that are more successful at B2B (Austin for example) but not so much in the B2C scene ... in fact the exact thing that the writer mentions in his article happens here where startups get bought out by their competition in Silicon Valley or other places. I guess the point I'm making is for Canada to get a successful tech startup scene going, concentrate on high density cities (Toronto?) otherwise see what edge you can give companies that do B2B startups.

liquimoon 13y ago
If you think about the technology adoption lifecycle, you not only need a concentration of people, but more importantly a concentration of early adopters. So, from that perspective, you can see why a lot of B2C apps come out of Silicon Valley. People live and breath new things there. But that's just one aspect of what makes Silicon Valley unique. When it comes to B2B, you don't really need a concentration of early adopters to make this work. You need to solve problems for businesses (doesn't really matter where they are). More importantly, you can see revenue right away if you ARE solving a real problem. I think that's why it's relatively easier to build a B2B startup outside of the valley.
jvm 13y ago
> B2C tech startups cannot takeoff in places that don't have really high densities of people because places like that wind up having the people with the mentality to use technology to get ahead/make their lives simpler. One reason I find this unconvincing is that Toronto specifically has very similar size and density characteristics to the Bay Area. Toronto's metro area has a comparable population [1][2]; and before it was amalgamated with its suburbs, the city itself also had a very similar population and population density to San Francisco [3][4]. Toronto is also home to U Toronto which has one of the world's top CompSci departments. I suspect there is some sort of policy problem at work here rather than a lack of density, possibly as banal as drawing from a smaller talent pool. [1] Toronto/Hamilton/Niagra area: 8.7 million http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Golden_horseshoe http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Golden_horseshoe [2] Combined San Jose/SF metro: 8.37 miilion http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/San_Jose-San_Francisco-Oakland,_CA_Combined_Statistical_Area http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/San_Jose-San_Francisco-Oakland,... [3] Old Toronto: Population 736k, density 19,600/mi^2 http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Old_Toronto http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Old_Toronto [4] San Francisco: Population 812k, density 17,620/mi^2 http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/San_francisco http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/San_francisco
- potatolicious 13y ago
  > "I suspect there is some sort of policy problem at work here rather than a lack of density, possibly as banal as drawing from a smaller talent pool." I'm a Canadian who grew up, went to school in Canada, and am now in the US. The problem is very simple and can be summed as such: A skilled software developer can make double to triple their salary easily by moving to the USA. And Canada and the Us have a legally porous border when it comes to exchanging workers. Double to triple. I shit you not. This is a huge part of what holds Canadian tech back. What kind of talent pool are you looking at when the US pays so much more, and there are relatively few legal barriers to taking these opportunities?
  - jvm 13y ago
    My girlfriend is Canadian but this is exactly what prevents us from moving there, I love Canada as a country. But something's missing from this equation. If wages are low in Canada because there is a glut of workers relative to the number of jobs, then why doesn't the sector expand to take advantage of the low wages? Contrarily, if the sector is small because high wages attract workers to the states, why can't Canadian companies pay as much as the American companies? There's nothing magical about America that allows its startups and companies to pay so much; Canada isn't particularly poor itself and its companies don't even have to pay for workers' health care. Either way, there has to be a deeper reason.
_delirium 13y ago
There's the military role in funding technology as well. Silicon Valley's proximity to Moffett Field isn't coincidental, and Canada's funding for military contractors is nowhere near the same level.
- canistr 13y ago
  I would half agree with this in that military contractors and engineering firms are in fact centred in the National Capital Region (Ottawa-Gatineau) instead of Toronto. This has a lot to do with the fact that Toronto is the financial hub of the country, but the military and military deals are done in Ottawa with the government. So even though the Greater Toronto Area has a number of engineering schools within a couple of hours drive, it's not conducive towards building an engineering culture the same way Ottawa, Montreal, or Silicon Valley is.

liquimoon 13y ago

If you think about the technology adoption lifecycle, you not only need a concentration of people, but more importantly a concentration of early adopters. So, from that perspective, you can see why a lot of B2C apps come out of Silicon Valley. People live and breath new things there. But that's just one aspect of what makes Silicon Valley unique. When it comes to B2B, you don't really need a concentration of early adopters to make this work. You need to solve problems for businesses (doesn't really matter where they are). More importantly, you can see revenue right away if you ARE solving a real problem. I think that's why it's relatively easier to build a B2B startup outside of the valley.

jvm 13y ago

> B2C tech startups cannot takeoff in places that don't have really high densities of people because places like that wind up having the people with the mentality to use technology to get ahead/make their lives simpler. One reason I find this unconvincing is that Toronto specifically has very similar size and density characteristics to the Bay Area. Toronto's metro area has a comparable population [1][2]; and before it was amalgamated with its suburbs, the city itself also had a very similar population and population density to San Francisco [3][4]. Toronto is also home to U Toronto which has one of the world's top CompSci departments. I suspect there is some sort of policy problem at work here rather than a lack of density, possibly as banal as drawing from a smaller talent pool. [1] Toronto/Hamilton/Niagra area: 8.7 million http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Golden_horseshoe http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Golden_horseshoe [2] Combined San Jose/SF metro: 8.37 miilion http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/San_Jose-San_Francisco-Oakland,_CA_Combined_Statistical_Area http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/San_Jose-San_Francisco-Oakland,... [3] Old Toronto: Population 736k, density 19,600/mi^2 http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Old_Toronto http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Old_Toronto [4] San Francisco: Population 812k, density 17,620/mi^2 http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/San_francisco http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/San_francisco

potatolicious 13y ago
> "I suspect there is some sort of policy problem at work here rather than a lack of density, possibly as banal as drawing from a smaller talent pool." I'm a Canadian who grew up, went to school in Canada, and am now in the US. The problem is very simple and can be summed as such: A skilled software developer can make double to triple their salary easily by moving to the USA. And Canada and the Us have a legally porous border when it comes to exchanging workers. Double to triple. I shit you not. This is a huge part of what holds Canadian tech back. What kind of talent pool are you looking at when the US pays so much more, and there are relatively few legal barriers to taking these opportunities?
- jvm 13y ago
  My girlfriend is Canadian but this is exactly what prevents us from moving there, I love Canada as a country. But something's missing from this equation. If wages are low in Canada because there is a glut of workers relative to the number of jobs, then why doesn't the sector expand to take advantage of the low wages? Contrarily, if the sector is small because high wages attract workers to the states, why can't Canadian companies pay as much as the American companies? There's nothing magical about America that allows its startups and companies to pay so much; Canada isn't particularly poor itself and its companies don't even have to pay for workers' health care. Either way, there has to be a deeper reason.

_delirium 13y ago

There's the military role in funding technology as well. Silicon Valley's proximity to Moffett Field isn't coincidental, and Canada's funding for military contractors is nowhere near the same level.

canistr 13y ago
I would half agree with this in that military contractors and engineering firms are in fact centred in the National Capital Region (Ottawa-Gatineau) instead of Toronto. This has a lot to do with the fact that Toronto is the financial hub of the country, but the military and military deals are done in Ottawa with the government. So even though the Greater Toronto Area has a number of engineering schools within a couple of hours drive, it's not conducive towards building an engineering culture the same way Ottawa, Montreal, or Silicon Valley is.