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I love love love AirBNB. I host w/ my apartment in NYC and it's enabled me to travel around the world this year and still have a home base when I need it. I'v

by nlh 13y ago

I love love love AirBNB. I host w/ my apartment in NYC and it's enabled me to travel around the world this year and still have a home base when I need it. I've used AirBNB a lot in those travels. BUT (there's always a 'but' isn't there). I'm skeptical. On two fronts: First, it's becoming increasingly difficult to make reservations as a guest in a nice place unless you're planning 4-6 months ahead of time. Some people have the luxury of doing that, many do not. I've just taken reservations for both Xmas and New Year's eve at my place in NYC and it's barely the end of July. As a guest, this irks me. I spent 3 weeks in London recently, booked the trip about a month in advance, and tried to no avail to find a place on AirBNB -- nada. All the nice places had been snapped up months ago, and the ones that were left were either shady brokers or absolute crap (it makes sense -- I wanted a 3 week booking. If a nice place had even a 1-day booking in that window, the whole place was unavailable). I ended up booking on HomeAway or FlipKey or one of their competitors. Second, I feel in some sense, the tide is turning the other way on the regulation front. I've been lucky with my place in NYC in that I'm in an AirBNB-friendly building and I've had extremely good luck in getting terrific guests. But the regulatory environment is not AirBNB-friendly and it's getting less so. Several people who used to host in NYC have stopped doing so for fear (irrational or otherwise) of running afoul of the law. I tried to host w/ my apartment in SF and within 72 hours of posting the listing, I received a very strongly-worded C&D letter from the building's management company staff attorney. They had someone in the office who constantly scanned for listings on AirBNB and came down hard and fast. Others have reported similar stories from HOAs and management companies. So of course I want nothing but the best for AirBNB - I've a happy customer on both sides. But I don't think it's such a slam dunk as many seem to think it is...

joering2 13y ago
I saw a bright lightbulb above my head for a moment: a paid service for $99 per month (or whatever!) and we will daily/weekly monitor if any of your properties/tenants are listed on BnB. Optional service for extra buck: we will mail them C&D letter (with Realtor logo on it, of course) to violators. I can see a brilliant marketing campaign and can imagine many Realtors signing up! Does something like that already exist?
- npguy 13y ago
  Posted this on firespotting - there is definitely a small profitable business in your idea -
- reneherse 13y ago
  Whether it exists or not, someone should apply to YC with this idea just to give PG & co a good laugh.
- nostromo 13y ago
  Instead of a C&D, have it track how much your tenants are Airbnbing their place for, then raise rent to that exact amount, minus a 5% cleaning & management fee that is theirs to keep.
  - bcoates 13y ago
    I'm gonna guess the correlation between profitable airbnb and rent control is strong.
    - nostromo 13y ago
      If you have a rent controlled tenant, catching them subletting is a dream come true.
    - deleted 13y ago
      [deleted]
    - ipince 13y ago
      nostromo can you elaborate on why its a dream come true? what could the landlord do?
      - rdouble 13y ago
        Kick them out for breaking the terms of the lease and raise the rent up to current market rate for the next tenant.
- deleted 13y ago
pg 13y ago
You'll be happy to hear then that their growth continues to be excellent. (And no, unfortunately, I can't give the numbers. But it's the sort of growth you can get only from some underlying wave of change.)
jeffdavis 13y ago
"Second, I feel in some sense, the tide is turning the other way on the regulation front." If a business makes sense, and consumers get a taste of it and have positive experiences, it's very hard to stop[1]. Institutional inefficiencies usually only last when better solutions are adequately hidden from consumers. I was pretty skeptical of AirBnb a while ago because I underestimated the effectiveness of trust and rating systems. I thought that the initial excitement was really just because the system masked the risks people were taking. I should have known from eBay that it can be done. If they do have the trust thing worked out pretty well, then it's a very solid business model. Net travel from any one city is generally close to zero[2], so having a ton of hotels is pretty inefficient. (I'm not an airbnb user, but I see why it's appealing.) [1] It could really only be stopped if airbnb were somehow vilified. For instance, if newspapers started running stories like "downtown overrun by out-of-town vandals using airbnb" (just to give an absurd example). [2] It varies seasonally, of course, which might mean that there are more people in tourist areas in the summer, causing a need for things like hotels. But many tourist destinations are also major cities, with their own residents leaving on holiday as well.
- muzz 13y ago
  By "institutional inefficiencies" you must be referring to the leases that apartment renters sign that state no subletting, or HOAs that most condo owners willing enter into that have similar restrictions.
  - jeffdavis 13y ago
    Exactly. Of course, there are some details that might cause problems. A landlord might expect more headaches and confusion from someone subletting the place, and may want to raise the rent to compensate. Also, just because it's inefficient doesn't mean that it's easy to solve. Copyright is obviously inefficient, but not easy to solve.
  - ersii 13y ago
    If anyone reading this comment wonders, "HOAs" seems to be "Home Owner Association" which according to Wikipedia is a type of corporation in the United States - that are usually setup by real estate developers for the purpose of "marketing, managing and selling of homes and lots in a residential subdivision". By setting up a "HOA", the real estate developer gets certain privileges that easies their exit and transferring of the property to the residents.
jerguismi 13y ago
"First, it's becoming increasingly difficult to make reservations as a guest in a nice place unless you're planning 4-6 months ahead of time. Some people have the luxury of doing that, many do not. I've just taken reservations for both Xmas and New Year's eve at my place in NYC and it's barely the end of July." Have you heard about supply and demand...
rtpg 13y ago
>Second, I feel in some sense, the tide is turning the other way on the regulation front Not to start a flame war, but I think this discussion is pretty prevalent with things like Uber and other 'disruptive' services: should we spend time thinking about why regulations are in place? I'm pretty sure a lot of the rules in leases about not doing airbnb is because most people don't want their neighbors running a hotel and it can cause prices to go up for people looking to live in an area (because of people potentially running a whole "network" of these). It's good to hear you're getting terrific guests, but I think it's important to acknowledge that some of the rules are there for a reason too( not saying you don't think so).

by nlh 13y ago

joering2 13y ago

I saw a bright lightbulb above my head for a moment: a paid service for $99 per month (or whatever!) and we will daily/weekly monitor if any of your properties/tenants are listed on BnB. Optional service for extra buck: we will mail them C&D letter (with Realtor logo on it, of course) to violators. I can see a brilliant marketing campaign and can imagine many Realtors signing up! Does something like that already exist?

npguy 13y ago
Posted this on firespotting - there is definitely a small profitable business in your idea -
reneherse 13y ago
Whether it exists or not, someone should apply to YC with this idea just to give PG & co a good laugh.
nostromo 13y ago
Instead of a C&D, have it track how much your tenants are Airbnbing their place for, then raise rent to that exact amount, minus a 5% cleaning & management fee that is theirs to keep.
- bcoates 13y ago
  I'm gonna guess the correlation between profitable airbnb and rent control is strong.
  - nostromo 13y ago
    If you have a rent controlled tenant, catching them subletting is a dream come true.
  - deleted 13y ago
    [deleted]
  - ipince 13y ago
    nostromo can you elaborate on why its a dream come true? what could the landlord do?
    - rdouble 13y ago
      Kick them out for breaking the terms of the lease and raise the rent up to current market rate for the next tenant.
deleted 13y ago

pg 13y ago

You'll be happy to hear then that their growth continues to be excellent. (And no, unfortunately, I can't give the numbers. But it's the sort of growth you can get only from some underlying wave of change.)

jeffdavis 13y ago

"Second, I feel in some sense, the tide is turning the other way on the regulation front." If a business makes sense, and consumers get a taste of it and have positive experiences, it's very hard to stop[1]. Institutional inefficiencies usually only last when better solutions are adequately hidden from consumers. I was pretty skeptical of AirBnb a while ago because I underestimated the effectiveness of trust and rating systems. I thought that the initial excitement was really just because the system masked the risks people were taking. I should have known from eBay that it can be done. If they do have the trust thing worked out pretty well, then it's a very solid business model. Net travel from any one city is generally close to zero[2], so having a ton of hotels is pretty inefficient. (I'm not an airbnb user, but I see why it's appealing.) [1] It could really only be stopped if airbnb were somehow vilified. For instance, if newspapers started running stories like "downtown overrun by out-of-town vandals using airbnb" (just to give an absurd example). [2] It varies seasonally, of course, which might mean that there are more people in tourist areas in the summer, causing a need for things like hotels. But many tourist destinations are also major cities, with their own residents leaving on holiday as well.

muzz 13y ago
By "institutional inefficiencies" you must be referring to the leases that apartment renters sign that state no subletting, or HOAs that most condo owners willing enter into that have similar restrictions.
- jeffdavis 13y ago
  Exactly. Of course, there are some details that might cause problems. A landlord might expect more headaches and confusion from someone subletting the place, and may want to raise the rent to compensate. Also, just because it's inefficient doesn't mean that it's easy to solve. Copyright is obviously inefficient, but not easy to solve.
- ersii 13y ago
  If anyone reading this comment wonders, "HOAs" seems to be "Home Owner Association" which according to Wikipedia is a type of corporation in the United States - that are usually setup by real estate developers for the purpose of "marketing, managing and selling of homes and lots in a residential subdivision". By setting up a "HOA", the real estate developer gets certain privileges that easies their exit and transferring of the property to the residents.

jerguismi 13y ago

"First, it's becoming increasingly difficult to make reservations as a guest in a nice place unless you're planning 4-6 months ahead of time. Some people have the luxury of doing that, many do not. I've just taken reservations for both Xmas and New Year's eve at my place in NYC and it's barely the end of July." Have you heard about supply and demand...

rtpg 13y ago

>Second, I feel in some sense, the tide is turning the other way on the regulation front Not to start a flame war, but I think this discussion is pretty prevalent with things like Uber and other 'disruptive' services: should we spend time thinking about why regulations are in place? I'm pretty sure a lot of the rules in leases about not doing airbnb is because most people don't want their neighbors running a hotel and it can cause prices to go up for people looking to live in an area (because of people potentially running a whole "network" of these). It's good to hear you're getting terrific guests, but I think it's important to acknowledge that some of the rules are there for a reason too( not saying you don't think so).