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it is certainly not safe to take 10,000 at once I think this claim needs justification. Just because it feels true is not enough.

by scott_s 13y ago

throwit1979 13y ago
Justification: a typical vaccine volume is 0.5mL. Injecting 5L of any liquid into a child intramuscularly would cause severe health problems, to say the least.
- beowulfey 13y ago
  That's not a good example because you can easily combine multiple vaccines into a single injection.
- saalweachter 13y ago
  First, with the irrelevant aside: vaccines aren't made of pure viruses. They're mostly filler. Second, here is what I recall about Dr Offit's chain of reasoning. 1. You need some amount of virus particles to provoke the immune reaction, call it 1 million. (I'm too lazy to try to google the numbers myself.) 2. You need some amount of immune cells of the various types to carry out the immune reaction which results in immunity, call it 10 million. 3. You have a total of 1 trillion of these immune cells in your body. (Once again, I'm making up the exact numbers.) 4. So therefore, the capacity of the immune system is sufficient to deal with 1 trillion / 10 million = 100,000 vaccines at once. Third, and most importantly, of course 10,000 vaccines at once is hyperbole, but it's making a very important point. The question wasn't "Should we give our childrens 1 vaccine or 10,000 vaccines?", it was a debate about whether a three-vaccine (or was it seven?) combo "stressed" the immune system too much. Dr Offit's point wasn't "Nah, let's give them 10,000 vaccines!" It was that when you go from 1 vaccine to 7 vaccines, you're increasing the load on your immune system from 0.01% to 0.07% and we've all got better things to worry about than that.
doktrin 13y ago
The burden of proof in this case lies with anyone making the "10,000" claim the first place. You don't get to make wild and outlandish statements and expect them to be taken at face value until specifically debunked.
- scott_s 13y ago
  The person who made the original claim does not post on HN, but the person who thinks that it is "certainly" unsafe does post here. Use of the word "certainly" implies that the answer is so obvious that we should all know the reasons why. Well, I don't. So I asked.
  - doktrin 13y ago
    Fair. After doing a little more research I now believe the 10,000 claim is not as outlandish as I once had thought, so your request for validation is justified.

it is certainly not safe to take 10,000 at once I think this claim needs justification. Just because it feels true is not enough.

by scott_s 13y ago

it is certainly not safe to take 10,000 at once I think this claim needs justification. Just because it feels true is not enough.

throwit1979 13y ago

Justification: a typical vaccine volume is 0.5mL. Injecting 5L of any liquid into a child intramuscularly would cause severe health problems, to say the least.

beowulfey 13y ago
That's not a good example because you can easily combine multiple vaccines into a single injection.
saalweachter 13y ago
First, with the irrelevant aside: vaccines aren't made of pure viruses. They're mostly filler. Second, here is what I recall about Dr Offit's chain of reasoning. 1. You need some amount of virus particles to provoke the immune reaction, call it 1 million. (I'm too lazy to try to google the numbers myself.) 2. You need some amount of immune cells of the various types to carry out the immune reaction which results in immunity, call it 10 million. 3. You have a total of 1 trillion of these immune cells in your body. (Once again, I'm making up the exact numbers.) 4. So therefore, the capacity of the immune system is sufficient to deal with 1 trillion / 10 million = 100,000 vaccines at once. Third, and most importantly, of course 10,000 vaccines at once is hyperbole, but it's making a very important point. The question wasn't "Should we give our childrens 1 vaccine or 10,000 vaccines?", it was a debate about whether a three-vaccine (or was it seven?) combo "stressed" the immune system too much. Dr Offit's point wasn't "Nah, let's give them 10,000 vaccines!" It was that when you go from 1 vaccine to 7 vaccines, you're increasing the load on your immune system from 0.01% to 0.07% and we've all got better things to worry about than that.

doktrin 13y ago

The burden of proof in this case lies with anyone making the "10,000" claim the first place. You don't get to make wild and outlandish statements and expect them to be taken at face value until specifically debunked.

scott_s 13y ago
The person who made the original claim does not post on HN, but the person who thinks that it is "certainly" unsafe does post here. Use of the word "certainly" implies that the answer is so obvious that we should all know the reasons why. Well, I don't. So I asked.
- doktrin 13y ago
  Fair. After doing a little more research I now believe the 10,000 claim is not as outlandish as I once had thought, so your request for validation is justified.