3 ms·

I don't really have a dog in this fight but as a response "Lots of people thought Koreans make terrible pilots" sort of ignores the fact that racism kinda by de

I don't really have a dog in this fight but as a response "Lots of people thought Koreans make terrible pilots" sort of ignores the fact that racism kinda by definition involves a widely held systematic bias.

brg 13y ago
Gladwell is very clear that the corporation Korean Air had terrible pilots an terrible piloting procedures, not that Koreans were terrible pilots. He is very clear that Korean Air admitted this, and worked throughout the nineties to change it. He said nothing about the Korean pilots working for Asiana or smaller regional airlines like Air Busan or Jeju.
- shadowfox 13y ago
  > Gladwell is very clear that the corporation Korean Air had terrible pilots an terrible piloting procedures, not that Koreans were terrible pilots I may have misunderstood the 2 posts. But I sort of understood that Gladwell was arguing that Korean cultural aspects, including the nature of the language, play(ed) a vital role in the airplane accidents. And if that is the case, you could say that he is arguing that Koreans are bad pilots (Of course he is excluding Koreans who don't subscribe to the culture; but is that such a huge number?) I probably completely misunderstood his original argument.
hannibal5 13y ago
Racism is the belief that some people or cultures are inherently inferior. I think it should be obviously clear that all cultures have their weak and strong points, and sometimes cultures should change and fix these problems. This is true for corporate cultures and cultures of whole nations.
- jrarredondo 13y ago
  That is a simplistic definition. You exclude actions or systemic patterns, just to name a few things to think about. Go to implicit.harvard.edu for a couple of eye opening experiments and tests.
- coldtea 13y ago
  >Racism is the belief that some people or cultures are inherently inferior. I think it should be obviously clear that all cultures have their weak and strong points, and sometimes cultures should change and fix these problems. How is the second idea different from "racism"? The "fix" part? If we believe (and it's a legitimate belief) that "all cultures have their weak and strong points", then we can also find that a culture (A) has more weak points than another (B). If A's weak points are far more, or are in the more important aspects of life, then, can't we say that "A is inherently inferior to B"? In this case, I wouldn't call it racism, but a fair assesment. I'd rather stick with the old definition of racism: "the belief that some people (members of an ethnic group) are genetically inferior to others".
kmfrk 13y ago
I think that's an unfair characterization. I'd rather describe his statement as "Korean airlines have bad pilots, and this might be why". It's not as broad a generalization as you make it sound, but I still find Gladwell's cultural reasoning highly specious.
marshray 13y ago
South Korea's aviation industry has made some preventable mistakes in the cockpit and they have made changes to their pilot recruitment, training, and procedures in an attempt to address this. The recent crash at SFO naturally raises the question of relevance to previous crashes and whether or not these changes were sufficient. Gladwell goes out of his way to refute any racist interpretation here. ("Cultural explanations are sometimes wielded with the same blunt force as genetic explanations—and that is a huge mistake.")

brg 13y ago

Gladwell is very clear that the corporation Korean Air had terrible pilots an terrible piloting procedures, not that Koreans were terrible pilots. He is very clear that Korean Air admitted this, and worked throughout the nineties to change it. He said nothing about the Korean pilots working for Asiana or smaller regional airlines like Air Busan or Jeju.

shadowfox 13y ago
> Gladwell is very clear that the corporation Korean Air had terrible pilots an terrible piloting procedures, not that Koreans were terrible pilots I may have misunderstood the 2 posts. But I sort of understood that Gladwell was arguing that Korean cultural aspects, including the nature of the language, play(ed) a vital role in the airplane accidents. And if that is the case, you could say that he is arguing that Koreans are bad pilots (Of course he is excluding Koreans who don't subscribe to the culture; but is that such a huge number?) I probably completely misunderstood his original argument.

hannibal5 13y ago

Racism is the belief that some people or cultures are inherently inferior. I think it should be obviously clear that all cultures have their weak and strong points, and sometimes cultures should change and fix these problems. This is true for corporate cultures and cultures of whole nations.

jrarredondo 13y ago
That is a simplistic definition. You exclude actions or systemic patterns, just to name a few things to think about. Go to implicit.harvard.edu for a couple of eye opening experiments and tests.
coldtea 13y ago
>Racism is the belief that some people or cultures are inherently inferior. I think it should be obviously clear that all cultures have their weak and strong points, and sometimes cultures should change and fix these problems. How is the second idea different from "racism"? The "fix" part? If we believe (and it's a legitimate belief) that "all cultures have their weak and strong points", then we can also find that a culture (A) has more weak points than another (B). If A's weak points are far more, or are in the more important aspects of life, then, can't we say that "A is inherently inferior to B"? In this case, I wouldn't call it racism, but a fair assesment. I'd rather stick with the old definition of racism: "the belief that some people (members of an ethnic group) are genetically inferior to others".

kmfrk 13y ago

I think that's an unfair characterization. I'd rather describe his statement as "Korean airlines have bad pilots, and this might be why". It's not as broad a generalization as you make it sound, but I still find Gladwell's cultural reasoning highly specious.

marshray 13y ago

South Korea's aviation industry has made some preventable mistakes in the cockpit and they have made changes to their pilot recruitment, training, and procedures in an attempt to address this. The recent crash at SFO naturally raises the question of relevance to previous crashes and whether or not these changes were sufficient. Gladwell goes out of his way to refute any racist interpretation here. ("Cultural explanations are sometimes wielded with the same blunt force as genetic explanations—and that is a huge mistake.")