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People are really good at apologizing for the atrocities of the previous generation. This is a pretty empty gesture, and doesn't forgive the UK for driving to s

People are really good at apologizing for the atrocities of the previous generation. This is a pretty empty gesture, and doesn't forgive the UK for driving to suicide a man who saved thousands of British lives.

dllthomas 13y ago
While I do agree with what you've said, it is also worthwhile nothing that the UK today is obviously not the same people.
- eshvk 13y ago
  Yes, they discriminate against a different class of people. Immigrants. They are different yet they are the same. Learning from your mistakes means minimizing discrimination wherever it exists. Apologies are empty otherwise. To emphasize my point further (which I briefly illustrated in another comment). This apology, I argue, is the same class of apologies as say an apology by the U.K. for atrocities committed in Kenya [1] during the uprising and then going forth into Iraq in the same decade. [1] http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mau_Mau_Uprising#Deaths_and_atrocities http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mau_Mau_Uprising#Deaths_and_atr...
  - dllthomas 13y ago
    That earlier discrimination was done by other people is good reason not to blame these people for that earlier discrimination. It is no reason at all not to blame these people for present discrimination.
    - eshvk 13y ago
      If the current people are not to be blamed, I would argue that itself renders the apology meaningless. It would be like you going on a murder spree and then me announcing that I apologize for a random stranger's murder spree. If they are to be blamed and willingly accept some measure of blame in order to apologize, then their apology is again empty unless they actually have taken steps to rectify the situation around them. (Which in discriminatory elements is identical to the previous situation.) Ultimately, I think it is theatre. An easy way for people who are not willing to solve problems around them: Yes, problems which also include discrimination against gays right now; yet want some way to assuage themselves of guilt. Well fuck that.
      - dllthomas 13y ago
        Recognition of what went wrong in the past is appropriate. Use it as an opportunity to point out what's still going wrong in the present; that's not the same thing as blaming the current generation for the errors of earlier ones, but neither is it blindly applauding while ignoring the things still needing fixing.

dllthomas 13y ago

While I do agree with what you've said, it is also worthwhile nothing that the UK today is obviously not the same people.

eshvk 13y ago
Yes, they discriminate against a different class of people. Immigrants. They are different yet they are the same. Learning from your mistakes means minimizing discrimination wherever it exists. Apologies are empty otherwise. To emphasize my point further (which I briefly illustrated in another comment). This apology, I argue, is the same class of apologies as say an apology by the U.K. for atrocities committed in Kenya [1] during the uprising and then going forth into Iraq in the same decade. [1] http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mau_Mau_Uprising#Deaths_and_atrocities http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mau_Mau_Uprising#Deaths_and_atr...
- dllthomas 13y ago
  That earlier discrimination was done by other people is good reason not to blame these people for that earlier discrimination. It is no reason at all not to blame these people for present discrimination.
  - eshvk 13y ago
    If the current people are not to be blamed, I would argue that itself renders the apology meaningless. It would be like you going on a murder spree and then me announcing that I apologize for a random stranger's murder spree. If they are to be blamed and willingly accept some measure of blame in order to apologize, then their apology is again empty unless they actually have taken steps to rectify the situation around them. (Which in discriminatory elements is identical to the previous situation.) Ultimately, I think it is theatre. An easy way for people who are not willing to solve problems around them: Yes, problems which also include discrimination against gays right now; yet want some way to assuage themselves of guilt. Well fuck that.
    - dllthomas 13y ago
      Recognition of what went wrong in the past is appropriate. Use it as an opportunity to point out what's still going wrong in the present; that's not the same thing as blaming the current generation for the errors of earlier ones, but neither is it blindly applauding while ignoring the things still needing fixing.