5 ms·

First Steps Towards Post Scarcity

15 points by ph0rque 18y ago

russell 18y ago
This may seem to be OT but it's going to affect most people deeply. What does it mean when most goods are very cheap or meaningless. We have been edging into post-scarcity since the 1960's, but we dont realize it yet. We shouldnt need two income families just to tread water. We have a lot of surplus, but it has been sucked away. The biggest offender has been housing. Not just that houses are larger than we need, but that speculation has driven land prices to outrageous highs. Now we are at the point where we can live anywhere and telecommute. Does the value get sucked out of the suburbs? Does the value of a university education become meaningless because we can learn off the web? What to the whole automotive/energy industry when cars are electric and long lived, may be one or two cars last your whole life? Do we all become service workers or do the service industries collapse, because we can do it outselves? What do we do with 20-hour workweeks?
- sachmanb 18y ago
  although people here may have an aversion to the word 'anarchy' - "Post Scarcity Anarchism" is a great book on this topic: http://www.amazon.com/Post-Scarcity-Anarchism-Working-Classics-Bookchin/dp/1904859062 http://www.amazon.com/Post-Scarcity-Anarchism-Working-Classi...
davidmathers 18y ago
Scarcity is infinite. Post scarcity is, as they say, not even wrong. Totally meaningless.
- mediaman 18y ago
  I agree with you -- decades of psychological research show that people acclimate to what they have, and then want more. Imagine cavemen postulating about what we'll do when we have these big machines that can carry us around at great speed, and when our food is already made for us and no hunting is required. Could they have guessed we'd work in glass office buildings so we can buy iPods and McMansions? I suspect we're in no better position to guess how we'll use our future economic output, only that we will definitely want to spend it.
  - sachmanb 18y ago
    yes, but not everyone in the world currently has this set of things: [1] shelter,[2] food, [3] water. there are some things that are basic to our survival and experience, and from there we build the 'more.' when i think post scarcity, i think post-scarcity of life essentials. the quest to explore and build new things is infinite.
- randallsquared 18y ago
  Wealth has increased enormously over the past couple centuries, but, as you say, we've absorbed it. But at some point as the curve trends up, we'll be able to work less and have more anyway on a year-to-year basis. Even though scarcity will technically never end, it might still feel like you can do anything you can imagine, for average levels of imagination.

15 points by ph0rque 18y ago

This may seem to be OT but it's going to affect most people deeply. What does it mean when most goods are very cheap or meaningless. We have been edging into post-scarcity since the 1960's, but we dont realize it yet. We shouldnt need two income families just to tread water. We have a lot of surplus, but it has been sucked away. The biggest offender has been housing. Not just that houses are larger than we need, but that speculation has driven land prices to outrageous highs. Now we are at the point where we can live anywhere and telecommute. Does the value get sucked out of the suburbs? Does the value of a university education become meaningless because we can learn off the web? What to the whole automotive/energy industry when cars are electric and long lived, may be one or two cars last your whole life? Do we all become service workers or do the service industries collapse, because we can do it outselves? What do we do with 20-hour workweeks?

sachmanb 18y ago
although people here may have an aversion to the word 'anarchy' - "Post Scarcity Anarchism" is a great book on this topic: http://www.amazon.com/Post-Scarcity-Anarchism-Working-Classics-Bookchin/dp/1904859062 http://www.amazon.com/Post-Scarcity-Anarchism-Working-Classi...

davidmathers 18y ago

Scarcity is infinite. Post scarcity is, as they say, not even wrong. Totally meaningless.

mediaman 18y ago
I agree with you -- decades of psychological research show that people acclimate to what they have, and then want more. Imagine cavemen postulating about what we'll do when we have these big machines that can carry us around at great speed, and when our food is already made for us and no hunting is required. Could they have guessed we'd work in glass office buildings so we can buy iPods and McMansions? I suspect we're in no better position to guess how we'll use our future economic output, only that we will definitely want to spend it.
- sachmanb 18y ago
  yes, but not everyone in the world currently has this set of things: [1] shelter,[2] food, [3] water. there are some things that are basic to our survival and experience, and from there we build the 'more.' when i think post scarcity, i think post-scarcity of life essentials. the quest to explore and build new things is infinite.
randallsquared 18y ago
Wealth has increased enormously over the past couple centuries, but, as you say, we've absorbed it. But at some point as the curve trends up, we'll be able to work less and have more anyway on a year-to-year basis. Even though scarcity will technically never end, it might still feel like you can do anything you can imagine, for average levels of imagination.