4 ms·

That press release is very odd. It negatively impacts the standing arguments in the pending litigation, and it's also just flat strange for the government to re

by jmduke 13y ago

That press release is very odd. It negatively impacts the standing arguments in the pending litigation, and it's also just flat strange for the government to release information about classified surveillance programs. I don't mean this as a criticism of you, as I know everyone has different opinions, but it frustrates me because criticizing the United States for being more transparent about their surveillance programs while also previously criticizing the US for lack of transparency seems unfairly hypocritical. I think a lot of commenters have made the United States into a villain; it doesn't matter what they do now, it'll be construed as the wrong move.

s_q_b 13y ago
The transparency argument rings hollow to me. Either you believe it's permissible for them to conduct this surveillance, or you don't. If you don't, then the solution is to stop the programs. If you do, then it helps that the programs remain secret. How does it help anyone if the government tells me they're spying on me? As an aside, look through my comment history. I doubt you'll feel that I'm making the US into a villain in this scenario.
- sneak 13y ago
  > Either you believe it's permissible for them to conduct this surveillance, or you don't. If you don't, then the solution is to stop the programs. If you do, then it helps that the programs remain secret. This is a very good point. As much as I fiercely despise these programs and the men that designed and enacted them, if one thinks that they're permissible, then keeping them as secret as possible makes logical sense.
perlpimp 13y ago
NSA is not inerently evil, these programs are - they are the cancer, because they have external funded interest. Private contractors that trade their directors to lead NSA and then get them back. Kind of incestious cycle don't you think? how is that someone who has hired your comany, suddenly runs your company ... maybe conflict of interest?
ferdo 13y ago
> I think a lot of commenters have made the United States into a villain The combined actions of many interests involved with the US government have made them into villains all by themselves. Transparency is meaningless unless it actually helps to stop the outrages committed by the government. As the government is still exercising powers that fewer citizens think they should have, the perception of villainy will only increase.
lambdasquirrel 13y ago
I wouldn't read this as criticizing the United States Gov't for being transparent (or not). The author may have been trying to be subtle, but I won't be. The press-release comes off ham-handed because it sounds like it came out of ineffectual petty vengeance. s_q_b is simply pointing out what others have said: that the U.S. has overplayed its hand at every turn, and found itself appearing more and more foolish.

by jmduke 13y ago

s_q_b 13y ago

The transparency argument rings hollow to me. Either you believe it's permissible for them to conduct this surveillance, or you don't. If you don't, then the solution is to stop the programs. If you do, then it helps that the programs remain secret. How does it help anyone if the government tells me they're spying on me? As an aside, look through my comment history. I doubt you'll feel that I'm making the US into a villain in this scenario.

sneak 13y ago
> Either you believe it's permissible for them to conduct this surveillance, or you don't. If you don't, then the solution is to stop the programs. If you do, then it helps that the programs remain secret. This is a very good point. As much as I fiercely despise these programs and the men that designed and enacted them, if one thinks that they're permissible, then keeping them as secret as possible makes logical sense.

perlpimp 13y ago

NSA is not inerently evil, these programs are - they are the cancer, because they have external funded interest. Private contractors that trade their directors to lead NSA and then get them back. Kind of incestious cycle don't you think? how is that someone who has hired your comany, suddenly runs your company ... maybe conflict of interest?

ferdo 13y ago

> I think a lot of commenters have made the United States into a villain The combined actions of many interests involved with the US government have made them into villains all by themselves. Transparency is meaningless unless it actually helps to stop the outrages committed by the government. As the government is still exercising powers that fewer citizens think they should have, the perception of villainy will only increase.

lambdasquirrel 13y ago

I wouldn't read this as criticizing the United States Gov't for being transparent (or not). The author may have been trying to be subtle, but I won't be. The press-release comes off ham-handed because it sounds like it came out of ineffectual petty vengeance. s_q_b is simply pointing out what others have said: that the U.S. has overplayed its hand at every turn, and found itself appearing more and more foolish.