12 ms·

I'm pretty late to leaving a comment, so it won't get a lot of exposure. Let's just leave these people the fuck alone. What threat are they under? Curious ass

by geuis 13y ago

I'm pretty late to leaving a comment, so it won't get a lot of exposure. Let's just leave these people the fuck alone. What threat are they under? Curious assholes like us. There are probably less than 1000 people on that island, all descended from people tens of thousands of years ago. There are more people than that that visit an Apple store on a Tuesday before 2pm. Leave them alone. We don't need to assuage our 10 second collective attention span by ruining their lives, destroying their history, and effectively ending a lineage thousands of years old. These people probably have their own ideas about the weird shit washing up on their beaches and the crazy stuff in the sky that drops outsiders and food from time to time. Leave them to it. It doesn't matter what they think, no matter how curious you think you are. Leave them alone. For the physics-minded, think of them as a sample of humanity in Schrödinger's box. It's not a cat, but people. Except in this experiment, any direct observation will absolutely kill the people. Any exposure to disease, customs, or technology without their explicit choice will kill them. Maybe they don't physically die, but their lineage will end.

eshvk 13y ago
Why leave them alone? (I have my own reasons why they should or shouldn't be left alone. I am just curious to figure out why you are so insistent that they be left alone.)
- JonnieCache 13y ago
  A. it is clearly what they want. B. contact with us is likely to be deadly to them.
  - homeomorphic 13y ago
    > A. it is clearly what they want. We all encounter at times fellow humans who want something that clearly is based on lacking information. Of course we respect such things, but only up to a certain point. We often do try to help people see the bigger picture - sometimes we do say "I hear you say that that is what you want, but have you considered the fact that...". > B. contact with us is likely to be deadly to them. This can be remedied with technology. A crude solution would be to land in hazmat suits and have a chat. I don't know how we should deal with the bows and arrows though.
    - alan_cx 13y ago
      A. Yeah, except we never tell them the down side. We arrogantly assume our oh so clever technical ways are better. Sadly we are still not mature enough to decently make contact with such people.
      - Anderkent 13y ago
        You can't be serious. How many children are you willing to condemn to extremely premature death because of your noble savage illusion? Yes, our 'oh so clever technical ways' are not perfect. But they are so much better. Perhaps these people are just as happy as we are. Even so, their stillborn children are still dead. They almost certainly see more murder and rape. How can you condemn people to living like that, even if they want to because they don't know any better?
        geuis 13y ago
        Don't you dare bring out the fucking "oh the children" argument. People die all the fucking time. Its what people do, we die. These people, if the suppositions are to be believed, have been able to survive and reproduce for tens of thousands of years. They don't need your pity or "help". If you sit back for an hour or so and re-read your comment 10-20 times, you'll realize what a Western missionary statement it is. Basically, your mindset seems to be similar to the "save the heathens" mindset of 18th - 19th century Europe in regards to the US and Australia, among other places. Surely we can't save them in body, but if we convert them before they die then they'll be saved in the light of the Lord. Hala loola or whatever. Yeah, I'm serious. Leave them alone.
        Anderkent 13y ago
        > People die all the fucking time. Its what people do, we die. Yes, and it's a problem! We should be doing everything we can so that people finally STOP DYING. And we should strive especially hard when it's children dying because their parents are too used to everyone dying to ASK FOR HELP. Now, in some cases it's difficult. We can't do it for everyone just yet. But in this case it's not. >These people, if the suppositions are to be believed, have been able to survive and reproduce for tens of thousands of years. Oh, that makes it all right then! Let's stop any kinds of aid, it's not like people will go extinct. Most of them will die, but some will survive and reproduce, and that makes it all right!
  - bedhead 13y ago
    C. What's the upside for us by contacting them? There's nothing at stake for us, it doesn't matter.
- alan_cx 13y ago
  We cant get our own cultures right, why screw up more?
chrischen 13y ago
That is what they are doing. In fact, the article (or Wikipedia), says India has already made it illegal/discouraged to go near the island.
- monsterix 13y ago
  Yes and those islands are also protected by the Indian Navy quite diligently. It's important to prevent curious assholes from touching the island for two reasons: 1. These tribes have not developed medical immunity against the kind of diseases we're host to. 2. They're truly wild and curious like us too. Protecting the former quality needs a restraint from our side. I've been to Andaman & Nicobar in 2004 and did feel a sense of excitement and curiosity when at the edge of our side of world. Check out this fifteen year old video on these tribesmen, their walking manners and the gap that we're talking about here [1]. Andamans have a tremendous diversity with its colonial history, modern day torture equipment at Cellular jail that the Brits used during their rule of the region, and exotic tribes like these. Apart from blue beaches and coral life that most tourists love to see. [1] http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OaPYwlXOTzQ http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OaPYwlXOTzQ
  - Killah911 13y ago
    The clip is absolutely fascinating. It's sad that the person who uploaded it also threw up a bunch of BS about garden of eden and Abrahamic religions. Come on, this contact with people unlike us. One of the downsides of greater contact and communication is the homogenization (somewhat) of civilizations around the world. These are people who have escaped much of that except a few contacts. We really do need to fight the urge to put nike's on them, although I must admit to being interested the number of things we might learn about ourselves from studying these people. But then again, I understand the Schrodinger's "People" analogy.
  - vr000m 13y ago
    except a lot of the tribes were further reduced to paltry sizes after the tsunami. If I remember correctly from my last visit in 1996/97, the census numbers for some of the tribes were already around ~100. Since Port Blair is on the middle island of the Andaman land mass, it has affected all the other tribes on that island. Especially the Jarwa. North andaman (Jarwa) tribes at the time were hostile, which I believe since the construction of the Andaman grand trunk road have become more subdued. Compared to Jarwa, the sentilese have it better, they dont share their island.
barking 13y ago
But what if they have a brutal dictator there? Or slavery? Or sexual abuse (like on pitcairn island)? On balance though, I think all countries should leave one another alone. Foreign intervention frequently seems to do more harm than good. These people though are now living in a constructed reality like 'The truman Show', we just haven't put the cameras in yet.
- userulluipeste 13y ago
  First, in "The Truman Show" the protagonist was not participating with his own volition. He did not wanted to restrain himself inside. These people had a lot of contact with the outside world and still want to be left alone. The parallel is not quite valid. Second, this is natural. The island is natural, the people with their ancestry and isolationist policy are as natural as possible. Even if we'd put cameras, we'd record (just) reality, as we do in a lot of other instances among ourselves.
  - barking 13y ago
    <<These people had a lot of contact with the outside world and still want to be left alone>> I'd argue that their attitude to the outside world can only be based on very little information most of which is probably no longer relevant
    - annnnd 13y ago
      Actually, I would argue that their information is VERY relevant. Humans make the same mistakes / crimes / ... over and over and over again. I am quite sure that Columbus approached the natives with gifts, and look where it ended.
      - barking 13y ago
        Really? You think they know what happened in the Americas post 1492? And suppose that the people of that island began showing signs that they wished to make contact. What then?
- 13y ago
homeomorphic 13y ago
I don't know… suppose some highly advanced aliens with for the most part benign intent found us. Would you really like them to "stay the fuck away"? I, for one, would love for our technology to leapfrog ahead centuries, even though it would completely change our culture. The disease part can be handled today. We could go visit them in hazmat suits. And I know I'm being really generous when I'm comparing the modern world to benign aliens, but properly managed (as access to the island already appears to be) surely we can approach them in a decent way? That they violently defend themselves is of course a highly complicating factor. I guess all I'm saying is that not establishing contact is also a choice that we're making on their behalf. Is deciding that they can't parttake in modern society any more OK than deciding they must? Can we not contact them in a way where they get to choose? Edit: I certainly agree that we as humans have an absolutely horrible track record on these kinds of things. But it's been a while now, hasn't it? Can't we pull this off by now? These guys are our brothers and sisters - should we at least not have a chat with them to see if they really want to be left the fuck alone, or if they might want to not die whenever they get an infected wound, or half the time they have kids, or whenever they break a leg? Hell, it might well be that some of them want to be left the fuck alone, while some would like to see the world. How come those latter ones have to stay on that island just because we say so?
- loxs 13y ago
  Regarding the aliens... how do we know they aren't already doing exactly that to us? "Leave them alone"? Also, with advanced technology comes advanced ways of self destruction. Maybe we don't poses the cultural requirements for being accepted in that club? I would argue the same for the Sentinese (there are good historical examples for this[1]). Maybe if we give them weapons, they will kill themselves, or end up in constant warring state or something else. [1] http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kingdom_of_Tahiti http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kingdom_of_Tahiti
- userulluipeste 13y ago
  The (Star Trek's) Prime Directive is not something worthwhile to be considered here? The representatives of these people (the ones with bows and other kind of weapons that dare to face the outsiders) are stating clearly their policy. Maybe it is us that must get over our desires to intrude supposedly on someone else's benefit.
aaron695 13y ago
This sort of comment is exactly what is wrong what the world. What is your expertise in this area? Are you a anthropologist?? I suspect you are just one of these sick people who like the idea mini zoos with humans in them. These are human beings. They deserve access to modern medicines like the rest of us of the world even if you lose this precious zoo. How are their women treated? That is the ones who don't die in child birth? Going off other primitive societies probably not great no matter what the Hollywood idea of how these societies operate and everything is great. This sickness of how the majority of the population would never ever want to live like this if they had a choice but somehow the people living it are having the time of their lives is bizarre. For all we know this island is just another North Korea and although I respect nations statehood I don't pretend it's somehow a moral decision not to get involved.
- rapind 13y ago
  You do realize that there are massive amounts of people who are part of our world that are living in worse conditions than this tribe is? How about we focus on them first before we decide that our way of life is so superior just because a minority of us have regular access to modern medicine... I'm positive you don't need to be an anthropologist to realize this. I don't even understand the zoo reference. This is not a man made entrapment, it's their home. "Leave them alone" doesn't mean starting island tours. This world cop attitude is incredibly egotistic. It assumes that we've found the superior way of life. Evidence points to the contrary when you consider the number of species we've played a key role in extinguishing and endangering with our super amazing society.
  - OvidNaso 13y ago
    >You do realize that there are massive amounts of people who are part of our world that are living in worse conditions than this tribe is? How about we focus on them first before we decide that our way of life is so superior just because a minority of us have regular access to modern medicine... Why should we focus on them? Your logic is that modern medicine is not an improvement or a factor in relieving suffering, but is only an illusion of our egotistical viewpoint. Why would it help those who are 'part of our world' that have insufficient access?
baltcode 13y ago
Not disagreeing with you at all, but they are not completely isolated. They come and go off the island and have compulsory education like the rest of the United States. So it's not like they don't know about pollution or helicopters or the like.
onebaddude 13y ago
>destroying their history Can you explain how this specific 65,000 years of history, in the context of a history that may go on for millions of years in the future for these people, is any more important than any other, and vital to protect? Maybe a million years from now their ancestors will look back to the time they "joined the real world" as the biggest, most important positive development in their history. Kind of like how the spread of language, the alphabet and math worked for us. There seem to be two types of people in this world: those who romanticize about the past and think that everything was better in simpler times, and those that think that things are just getting better as we go. I'm of the latter. Do you ever wish you were still a hunter gatherer? I don't, nor do I know anyone who does. Why is that?

by geuis 13y ago

eshvk 13y ago

Why leave them alone? (I have my own reasons why they should or shouldn't be left alone. I am just curious to figure out why you are so insistent that they be left alone.)

JonnieCache 13y ago
A. it is clearly what they want. B. contact with us is likely to be deadly to them.
- homeomorphic 13y ago
  > A. it is clearly what they want. We all encounter at times fellow humans who want something that clearly is based on lacking information. Of course we respect such things, but only up to a certain point. We often do try to help people see the bigger picture - sometimes we do say "I hear you say that that is what you want, but have you considered the fact that...". > B. contact with us is likely to be deadly to them. This can be remedied with technology. A crude solution would be to land in hazmat suits and have a chat. I don't know how we should deal with the bows and arrows though.
  - alan_cx 13y ago
    A. Yeah, except we never tell them the down side. We arrogantly assume our oh so clever technical ways are better. Sadly we are still not mature enough to decently make contact with such people.
    - Anderkent 13y ago
      You can't be serious. How many children are you willing to condemn to extremely premature death because of your noble savage illusion? Yes, our 'oh so clever technical ways' are not perfect. But they are so much better. Perhaps these people are just as happy as we are. Even so, their stillborn children are still dead. They almost certainly see more murder and rape. How can you condemn people to living like that, even if they want to because they don't know any better?
      - geuis 13y ago
        Don't you dare bring out the fucking "oh the children" argument. People die all the fucking time. Its what people do, we die. These people, if the suppositions are to be believed, have been able to survive and reproduce for tens of thousands of years. They don't need your pity or "help". If you sit back for an hour or so and re-read your comment 10-20 times, you'll realize what a Western missionary statement it is. Basically, your mindset seems to be similar to the "save the heathens" mindset of 18th - 19th century Europe in regards to the US and Australia, among other places. Surely we can't save them in body, but if we convert them before they die then they'll be saved in the light of the Lord. Hala loola or whatever. Yeah, I'm serious. Leave them alone.
        Anderkent 13y ago
        > People die all the fucking time. Its what people do, we die. Yes, and it's a problem! We should be doing everything we can so that people finally STOP DYING. And we should strive especially hard when it's children dying because their parents are too used to everyone dying to ASK FOR HELP. Now, in some cases it's difficult. We can't do it for everyone just yet. But in this case it's not. >These people, if the suppositions are to be believed, have been able to survive and reproduce for tens of thousands of years. Oh, that makes it all right then! Let's stop any kinds of aid, it's not like people will go extinct. Most of them will die, but some will survive and reproduce, and that makes it all right!
- bedhead 13y ago
  C. What's the upside for us by contacting them? There's nothing at stake for us, it doesn't matter.
alan_cx 13y ago
We cant get our own cultures right, why screw up more?

chrischen 13y ago

That is what they are doing. In fact, the article (or Wikipedia), says India has already made it illegal/discouraged to go near the island.

monsterix 13y ago
Yes and those islands are also protected by the Indian Navy quite diligently. It's important to prevent curious assholes from touching the island for two reasons: 1. These tribes have not developed medical immunity against the kind of diseases we're host to. 2. They're truly wild and curious like us too. Protecting the former quality needs a restraint from our side. I've been to Andaman & Nicobar in 2004 and did feel a sense of excitement and curiosity when at the edge of our side of world. Check out this fifteen year old video on these tribesmen, their walking manners and the gap that we're talking about here [1]. Andamans have a tremendous diversity with its colonial history, modern day torture equipment at Cellular jail that the Brits used during their rule of the region, and exotic tribes like these. Apart from blue beaches and coral life that most tourists love to see. [1] http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OaPYwlXOTzQ http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OaPYwlXOTzQ
- Killah911 13y ago
  The clip is absolutely fascinating. It's sad that the person who uploaded it also threw up a bunch of BS about garden of eden and Abrahamic religions. Come on, this contact with people unlike us. One of the downsides of greater contact and communication is the homogenization (somewhat) of civilizations around the world. These are people who have escaped much of that except a few contacts. We really do need to fight the urge to put nike's on them, although I must admit to being interested the number of things we might learn about ourselves from studying these people. But then again, I understand the Schrodinger's "People" analogy.
- vr000m 13y ago
  except a lot of the tribes were further reduced to paltry sizes after the tsunami. If I remember correctly from my last visit in 1996/97, the census numbers for some of the tribes were already around ~100. Since Port Blair is on the middle island of the Andaman land mass, it has affected all the other tribes on that island. Especially the Jarwa. North andaman (Jarwa) tribes at the time were hostile, which I believe since the construction of the Andaman grand trunk road have become more subdued. Compared to Jarwa, the sentilese have it better, they dont share their island.

barking 13y ago

But what if they have a brutal dictator there? Or slavery? Or sexual abuse (like on pitcairn island)? On balance though, I think all countries should leave one another alone. Foreign intervention frequently seems to do more harm than good. These people though are now living in a constructed reality like 'The truman Show', we just haven't put the cameras in yet.

userulluipeste 13y ago
First, in "The Truman Show" the protagonist was not participating with his own volition. He did not wanted to restrain himself inside. These people had a lot of contact with the outside world and still want to be left alone. The parallel is not quite valid. Second, this is natural. The island is natural, the people with their ancestry and isolationist policy are as natural as possible. Even if we'd put cameras, we'd record (just) reality, as we do in a lot of other instances among ourselves.
- barking 13y ago
  <<These people had a lot of contact with the outside world and still want to be left alone>> I'd argue that their attitude to the outside world can only be based on very little information most of which is probably no longer relevant
  - annnnd 13y ago
    Actually, I would argue that their information is VERY relevant. Humans make the same mistakes / crimes / ... over and over and over again. I am quite sure that Columbus approached the natives with gifts, and look where it ended.
    - barking 13y ago
      Really? You think they know what happened in the Americas post 1492? And suppose that the people of that island began showing signs that they wished to make contact. What then?
13y ago

homeomorphic 13y ago

I don't know… suppose some highly advanced aliens with for the most part benign intent found us. Would you really like them to "stay the fuck away"? I, for one, would love for our technology to leapfrog ahead centuries, even though it would completely change our culture. The disease part can be handled today. We could go visit them in hazmat suits. And I know I'm being really generous when I'm comparing the modern world to benign aliens, but properly managed (as access to the island already appears to be) surely we can approach them in a decent way? That they violently defend themselves is of course a highly complicating factor. I guess all I'm saying is that not establishing contact is also a choice that we're making on their behalf. Is deciding that they can't parttake in modern society any more OK than deciding they must? Can we not contact them in a way where they get to choose? Edit: I certainly agree that we as humans have an absolutely horrible track record on these kinds of things. But it's been a while now, hasn't it? Can't we pull this off by now? These guys are our brothers and sisters - should we at least not have a chat with them to see if they really want to be left the fuck alone, or if they might want to not die whenever they get an infected wound, or half the time they have kids, or whenever they break a leg? Hell, it might well be that some of them want to be left the fuck alone, while some would like to see the world. How come those latter ones have to stay on that island just because we say so?

loxs 13y ago
Regarding the aliens... how do we know they aren't already doing exactly that to us? "Leave them alone"? Also, with advanced technology comes advanced ways of self destruction. Maybe we don't poses the cultural requirements for being accepted in that club? I would argue the same for the Sentinese (there are good historical examples for this[1]). Maybe if we give them weapons, they will kill themselves, or end up in constant warring state or something else. [1] http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kingdom_of_Tahiti http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kingdom_of_Tahiti
userulluipeste 13y ago
The (Star Trek's) Prime Directive is not something worthwhile to be considered here? The representatives of these people (the ones with bows and other kind of weapons that dare to face the outsiders) are stating clearly their policy. Maybe it is us that must get over our desires to intrude supposedly on someone else's benefit.

aaron695 13y ago

This sort of comment is exactly what is wrong what the world. What is your expertise in this area? Are you a anthropologist?? I suspect you are just one of these sick people who like the idea mini zoos with humans in them. These are human beings. They deserve access to modern medicines like the rest of us of the world even if you lose this precious zoo. How are their women treated? That is the ones who don't die in child birth? Going off other primitive societies probably not great no matter what the Hollywood idea of how these societies operate and everything is great. This sickness of how the majority of the population would never ever want to live like this if they had a choice but somehow the people living it are having the time of their lives is bizarre. For all we know this island is just another North Korea and although I respect nations statehood I don't pretend it's somehow a moral decision not to get involved.

rapind 13y ago
You do realize that there are massive amounts of people who are part of our world that are living in worse conditions than this tribe is? How about we focus on them first before we decide that our way of life is so superior just because a minority of us have regular access to modern medicine... I'm positive you don't need to be an anthropologist to realize this. I don't even understand the zoo reference. This is not a man made entrapment, it's their home. "Leave them alone" doesn't mean starting island tours. This world cop attitude is incredibly egotistic. It assumes that we've found the superior way of life. Evidence points to the contrary when you consider the number of species we've played a key role in extinguishing and endangering with our super amazing society.
- OvidNaso 13y ago
  >You do realize that there are massive amounts of people who are part of our world that are living in worse conditions than this tribe is? How about we focus on them first before we decide that our way of life is so superior just because a minority of us have regular access to modern medicine... Why should we focus on them? Your logic is that modern medicine is not an improvement or a factor in relieving suffering, but is only an illusion of our egotistical viewpoint. Why would it help those who are 'part of our world' that have insufficient access?

baltcode 13y ago

Not disagreeing with you at all, but they are not completely isolated. They come and go off the island and have compulsory education like the rest of the United States. So it's not like they don't know about pollution or helicopters or the like.

onebaddude 13y ago

>destroying their history Can you explain how this specific 65,000 years of history, in the context of a history that may go on for millions of years in the future for these people, is any more important than any other, and vital to protect? Maybe a million years from now their ancestors will look back to the time they "joined the real world" as the biggest, most important positive development in their history. Kind of like how the spread of language, the alphabet and math worked for us. There seem to be two types of people in this world: those who romanticize about the past and think that everything was better in simpler times, and those that think that things are just getting better as we go. I'm of the latter. Do you ever wish you were still a hunter gatherer? I don't, nor do I know anyone who does. Why is that?