4 ms·

Startups often don't have the time or resources available to them to re-write everything. Many open source libraries have been developed by dozens of very smar

by helium 17y ago

Startups often don't have the time or resources available to them to re-write everything. Many open source libraries have been developed by dozens of very smart people over many years, do you really think your solution will be better?

axod 17y ago
In specialized spaces that matter 100% to my startup, yes.
- davidw 17y ago
  That's sort of the point, though, isn't it? You should be concentrating on that stuff, not replicating (or writing from scratch!) N other libraries that you do need, but that aren't the core of your business.
  - helium 17y ago
    Well sometimes it's a case of gluing together the right components and quickly getting it out there. Not everyone has to be the next Google.
  - axod 17y ago
    OTOH though, a lot of things aren't rocket science. For example, if you want to roll your own webserver/framework for good reasons, definitely do it. But I agree. It's a matter of deciding when it matters, and when it doesn't.
- helium 17y ago
  Sure. On some projects your advantage is on a technical level. But on others it's time to market. Or an unique idea that's never been tried before. In these cases it's to your advantage to use the mainstream tools because there are so many resources available to you.
tsally 17y ago
Remember that libraries licensed under the GPL don't count, as far as startups go. You'd be surprised at how many of the libraries you use in hacked up code on a daily basis are ones you can't release with a closed source product.
- plinkplonk 17y ago
  "You'd be surprised at how many of the libraries you use in hacked up code on a daily basis are ones you can't release with a closed source product" I thought GPL libs could be used n a web based project? PG's article says (emphasis mine) "One of the reasons to use Lisp in writing Web-based applications .. "
- gaius 17y ago
  "Release" being the operative word. You can do anything you like with GPL code you run on your own kit. SAAS is a huge end-run around the GPL.
  - bodhi 17y ago
    Isn't the Affero GPL supposed to address the end-run problem? I guess I should check myself really: [Seems it is](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Affero_General_Public_License http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Affero_General_Public_License).
  - randallsquared 17y ago
    I like the GPL, and I like SAAS. It's not an "end-run around the GPL" unless you believe that the object of the GPL is to stop people from making money from programming. If, instead, you believe the rightful purpose of the GPL is encouraging people to control the software on their own hardware, then SAAS fits in with that goal quite well. Letting people use my computer with my software on it for some task does not make my computer (or my software) theirs, and it shouldn't.
- jrockway 17y ago
  The GPL will also kill your entire family when you're not looking. You should use the much better "jrockway is awesome license", which gives you the freedom to give me all your money. I like that one a lot more. (Also, what is with all the anti-GPL FUD on this site? Have any of you guys read the license, or do you just like to bash it because you don't like Free Software?)
subbu 17y ago
What axod is suggesting is programmers can always write something of their own if there isn't anything they want. They don't have to write everything in the first go. But incrementally. This is how Django and Rails were born. Smart people will join later if they find the base interesting.
briancooley 17y ago
The question to ask isn't whether the solution will be better, but rather whether the differentiation that gives your product value is derived from rewriting libraries. Libraries tend to be generic, so you can often do better for your specific problem if you are willing to pay the opportunity cost.
wglb 17y ago
I like the Franz story about NFS. The found it was easier to reimplement NFS from scratch rather than to figure out how to configure the commercial product. Bleeping NFS! Sometimes it is quicker to write the exact thing you need rather than struggling with something that wants you to think it is the solution to your problem. Another case in point was the Aha! moment someone described when realized that the Lisp Postgress interface was not going against the library but against the wire protocol itself. Just as easy.

by helium 17y ago

axod 17y ago

In specialized spaces that matter 100% to my startup, yes.

davidw 17y ago
That's sort of the point, though, isn't it? You should be concentrating on that stuff, not replicating (or writing from scratch!) N other libraries that you do need, but that aren't the core of your business.
- helium 17y ago
  Well sometimes it's a case of gluing together the right components and quickly getting it out there. Not everyone has to be the next Google.
- axod 17y ago
  OTOH though, a lot of things aren't rocket science. For example, if you want to roll your own webserver/framework for good reasons, definitely do it. But I agree. It's a matter of deciding when it matters, and when it doesn't.
helium 17y ago
Sure. On some projects your advantage is on a technical level. But on others it's time to market. Or an unique idea that's never been tried before. In these cases it's to your advantage to use the mainstream tools because there are so many resources available to you.

tsally 17y ago

Remember that libraries licensed under the GPL don't count, as far as startups go. You'd be surprised at how many of the libraries you use in hacked up code on a daily basis are ones you can't release with a closed source product.

plinkplonk 17y ago
"You'd be surprised at how many of the libraries you use in hacked up code on a daily basis are ones you can't release with a closed source product" I thought GPL libs could be used n a web based project? PG's article says (emphasis mine) "One of the reasons to use Lisp in writing Web-based applications .. "
gaius 17y ago
"Release" being the operative word. You can do anything you like with GPL code you run on your own kit. SAAS is a huge end-run around the GPL.
- bodhi 17y ago
  Isn't the Affero GPL supposed to address the end-run problem? I guess I should check myself really: [Seems it is](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Affero_General_Public_License http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Affero_General_Public_License).
- randallsquared 17y ago
  I like the GPL, and I like SAAS. It's not an "end-run around the GPL" unless you believe that the object of the GPL is to stop people from making money from programming. If, instead, you believe the rightful purpose of the GPL is encouraging people to control the software on their own hardware, then SAAS fits in with that goal quite well. Letting people use my computer with my software on it for some task does not make my computer (or my software) theirs, and it shouldn't.
jrockway 17y ago
The GPL will also kill your entire family when you're not looking. You should use the much better "jrockway is awesome license", which gives you the freedom to give me all your money. I like that one a lot more. (Also, what is with all the anti-GPL FUD on this site? Have any of you guys read the license, or do you just like to bash it because you don't like Free Software?)

subbu 17y ago

What axod is suggesting is programmers can always write something of their own if there isn't anything they want. They don't have to write everything in the first go. But incrementally. This is how Django and Rails were born. Smart people will join later if they find the base interesting.

briancooley 17y ago

The question to ask isn't whether the solution will be better, but rather whether the differentiation that gives your product value is derived from rewriting libraries. Libraries tend to be generic, so you can often do better for your specific problem if you are willing to pay the opportunity cost.

wglb 17y ago

I like the Franz story about NFS. The found it was easier to reimplement NFS from scratch rather than to figure out how to configure the commercial product. Bleeping NFS! Sometimes it is quicker to write the exact thing you need rather than struggling with something that wants you to think it is the solution to your problem. Another case in point was the Aha! moment someone described when realized that the Lisp Postgress interface was not going against the library but against the wire protocol itself. Just as easy.