5 ms·

How is that related to population migration between 2000-10?

jbooth 13y ago
It's a somewhat racist simplification of things. The 67 riots were a big part of what provoked 'white flight' from detroit to the burbs. Of course, detroit was already losing population before that and the trend didn't speed up overall until much later, when the car companies started struggling. As always, it's more about economics than it is about race. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Demographic_history_of_Detroit http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Demographic_history_of_Detroit
- mgkimsal 13y ago
  "The 67 riots were a big part of what provoked 'white flight' from detroit to the burbs." Coleman Young did his best to keep it going a decade later.
- tptacek 13y ago
  The only thing racist about attributing Detroit's decline to "white flight" is the name "white flight", since black families were also very much a part of white flight.
  - jbooth 13y ago
    Lots of cities had race riots in the 60s. Lots of cities were rough during the crack epidemic, too. Most are doing great these days. Looking past the collapse of the auto industry (which coincided with the greatest population decline in 2000-2010), to riots 50 (!) years ago as the sole reason for decline strikes me as having the answer in mind before hearing the question. YMMV.
    - 554594bc 13y ago
      >Lots of cities had race riots in the 60s. Lots of cities were rough during the crack epidemic, too. Not a lot of cities have had black mayors continuously since 1974.
      - 13b9f227ecf0 13y ago
        "A Prayer for the City" follows Ed Rendell's mayorship of Philadelphia. When Rendell succeeded Wilson Goode the city was on the verge of a financial meltdown. The government was literally not capable of producing a balance sheet and had no projections. Philadelphia would have melted down into total disaster if events had gone slightly differently.
    - tptacek 13y ago
      Were any of those cities of Detroit's size, and did they too lose double digit percentages of their majority white populations?
- rayiner 13y ago
  > It's a somewhat racist simplification of things. Housing and education are the two remaining bastions of socially acceptable racism and classism in American society. Middle class white families don't want to move into a city that's 80% black and 30% below the poverty line. There is a lot of talk about the revitalization of downtown Detroit. Take a look at this demographic map (blue = blacks, red = whites) and see if you can guess what neighborhoods those yuppies are moving into: http://media.mlive.com/news/detroit_impact/photo/detroit-race-ethnicityjpg-22460d870367ecf8.jpg http://media.mlive.com/news/detroit_impact/photo/detroit-rac....
  - tptacek 13y ago
    Middle class black families don't want to (really: won't) move into a city with high crime and low employment prospects. We attribute a racial dynamic to Detroit because of the label "white flight", but it's the label that's racist; the dynamic transcends race. You see the same thing in Oak Park, on the outskirts of the West Side of Chicago, where I live. If you can get out of Humboldt Park and North Lawndale, you do: the schools are better and the neighborhood is safer. And the move from Lawndale to Oak Park doesn't even change your employability, unlike a move out of Detroit.
    - jordanb 13y ago
      You're obviously right that anyone with means will try to leave a high crime neighborhood. But "white flight" was absolutely a thing: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Blockbusting http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Blockbusting
    - rayiner 13y ago
      That's also true, but on the flip side I think what we're seeing in Chicago is that the middle class black folks are more reluctant to leave for the suburbs and try to stick it out longer in those neighborhoods than the middle class white folks.
    - angersock 13y ago
      Had family who lived in that area during the late 60s--do you have any thoughts on why Chicago bounced back and Detroit did not? My hunch would be being less invested in the auto industry and more in general trade and banking.
mgkimsal 13y ago
There's a generational aspect. As throngs left Detroit in the 60s through 80s, they started families, but not in Detroit. As people died off in Detroit, there was no younger population to keep the numbers up. It's not all that, but some people moving out in the 2000s (me, for one) made the % drop larger. Had there still been 2 million in Detroit like years past, a 10% drop would have hurt but not that much (and just given the economies around a population that large, it probably wouldn't have even dropped that much).
tptacek 13y ago
Detroit has been in continual (statistical) decline since the riots. In the decades following the riots, the middle class black population followed the white population into the suburbs. At the same time, the industrial economy of the rust belt collapsed. Then the auto industry collapsed. Any one of these things could set in motion a vicious circle (people leave, local services become underfunded, crime increases, property values decline, more people leave) but Detroit got hit continuously for ~4 decades.
- dennisgorelik 13y ago
  It's not that auto industry collapsed, it's auto industry dumped these cities for poor performance.

It's a somewhat racist simplification of things. The 67 riots were a big part of what provoked 'white flight' from detroit to the burbs. Of course, detroit was already losing population before that and the trend didn't speed up overall until much later, when the car companies started struggling. As always, it's more about economics than it is about race. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Demographic_history_of_Detroit http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Demographic_history_of_Detroit

mgkimsal 13y ago
"The 67 riots were a big part of what provoked 'white flight' from detroit to the burbs." Coleman Young did his best to keep it going a decade later.
tptacek 13y ago
The only thing racist about attributing Detroit's decline to "white flight" is the name "white flight", since black families were also very much a part of white flight.
- jbooth 13y ago
  Lots of cities had race riots in the 60s. Lots of cities were rough during the crack epidemic, too. Most are doing great these days. Looking past the collapse of the auto industry (which coincided with the greatest population decline in 2000-2010), to riots 50 (!) years ago as the sole reason for decline strikes me as having the answer in mind before hearing the question. YMMV.
  - 554594bc 13y ago
    >Lots of cities had race riots in the 60s. Lots of cities were rough during the crack epidemic, too. Not a lot of cities have had black mayors continuously since 1974.
    - 13b9f227ecf0 13y ago
      "A Prayer for the City" follows Ed Rendell's mayorship of Philadelphia. When Rendell succeeded Wilson Goode the city was on the verge of a financial meltdown. The government was literally not capable of producing a balance sheet and had no projections. Philadelphia would have melted down into total disaster if events had gone slightly differently.
  - tptacek 13y ago
    Were any of those cities of Detroit's size, and did they too lose double digit percentages of their majority white populations?
rayiner 13y ago
> It's a somewhat racist simplification of things. Housing and education are the two remaining bastions of socially acceptable racism and classism in American society. Middle class white families don't want to move into a city that's 80% black and 30% below the poverty line. There is a lot of talk about the revitalization of downtown Detroit. Take a look at this demographic map (blue = blacks, red = whites) and see if you can guess what neighborhoods those yuppies are moving into: http://media.mlive.com/news/detroit_impact/photo/detroit-race-ethnicityjpg-22460d870367ecf8.jpg http://media.mlive.com/news/detroit_impact/photo/detroit-rac....
- tptacek 13y ago
  Middle class black families don't want to (really: won't) move into a city with high crime and low employment prospects. We attribute a racial dynamic to Detroit because of the label "white flight", but it's the label that's racist; the dynamic transcends race. You see the same thing in Oak Park, on the outskirts of the West Side of Chicago, where I live. If you can get out of Humboldt Park and North Lawndale, you do: the schools are better and the neighborhood is safer. And the move from Lawndale to Oak Park doesn't even change your employability, unlike a move out of Detroit.
  - jordanb 13y ago
    You're obviously right that anyone with means will try to leave a high crime neighborhood. But "white flight" was absolutely a thing: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Blockbusting http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Blockbusting
  - rayiner 13y ago
    That's also true, but on the flip side I think what we're seeing in Chicago is that the middle class black folks are more reluctant to leave for the suburbs and try to stick it out longer in those neighborhoods than the middle class white folks.
  - angersock 13y ago
    Had family who lived in that area during the late 60s--do you have any thoughts on why Chicago bounced back and Detroit did not? My hunch would be being less invested in the auto industry and more in general trade and banking.

mgkimsal 13y ago

There's a generational aspect. As throngs left Detroit in the 60s through 80s, they started families, but not in Detroit. As people died off in Detroit, there was no younger population to keep the numbers up. It's not all that, but some people moving out in the 2000s (me, for one) made the % drop larger. Had there still been 2 million in Detroit like years past, a 10% drop would have hurt but not that much (and just given the economies around a population that large, it probably wouldn't have even dropped that much).

tptacek 13y ago

Detroit has been in continual (statistical) decline since the riots. In the decades following the riots, the middle class black population followed the white population into the suburbs. At the same time, the industrial economy of the rust belt collapsed. Then the auto industry collapsed. Any one of these things could set in motion a vicious circle (people leave, local services become underfunded, crime increases, property values decline, more people leave) but Detroit got hit continuously for ~4 decades.

dennisgorelik 13y ago
It's not that auto industry collapsed, it's auto industry dumped these cities for poor performance.