4 ms·

Politics. Honest career. Pick one.

by ddq 13y ago

rbanffy 13y ago
If you are honest and don't want to enter politics, you cannot complain when less honest folks do so.
- VladRussian2 13y ago
  If you are honest and don't want to rob other people, you cannot complain when less honest folks do so.
  - 6d0debc071 13y ago
    That's actually a pretty good argument if there were a more or less constant number of robbers. In a situation where you were definitely going to be robbed - as seems to be the case if you want it to be analogous with government: Would you rather be robbed by a complete drugged out psychopath who'll kill you if you twitch or someone relatively calm who definitely won't kill you if you just hand over the money?
    - VladRussian2 13y ago
      nice turn. Drugged out psychopaths can't organize into long functioning multi-layered mafia organizations who would control whole cities and whose extortion activities go well beyond simple robberies of private citizens where is the "nice" guys can and do.
      - 6d0debc071 13y ago
        Are you claiming that evil people are stupid? I'm not sure what the analogous risk is meant to be for governments there - they already seem plenty organised.
pvnick 13y ago
My brother, a great guy, is starting his degree in civil engineering and is seriously considering one day working for the government to help develop systems that deliver water to people whom would otherwise not have enough water to survive. Should Anonymous hack his email account and dump his passwords on the internet?
- dmix 13y ago
  You mean everyone should give your brother a reasonable expectation of privacy regarding his online information? Totally agree.
- VladRussian2 13y ago
  >a great guy, is starting his degree in civil engineering yep, sounds like he is just young and thus naive. > working for the government to help develop systems that deliver water to people whom would otherwise not have enough water to survive. government and water at places where not enough water ... what can go wrong here ... Chinatown.
  - foobarbazqux 13y ago
    What happened in Chinatown?
    - VladRussian2 13y ago
      http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0071315/ http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0071315/ As a sidenote, it is interesting that water issues underlie so much CA politics even now, many decades later, and will continue to do so in the foreseeable future.
      - foobarbazqux 13y ago
        Oh, I've seen it, I was referring to this: http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0071315/faq#.2.1.3 http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0071315/faq#.2.1.3
antoko 13y ago
These aren't politicians they're staffers. Many people enter the political realm to affect policy change. Many of these people are driven by a desire to do good. You are painting with too broad a brush and your comment doesn't really add anything to the conversation. Do some people enter politics because they just want power or they want to polish their ego? Sure! But that doesn't mean everyone in the industry is inherently a bad actor. Even politicians (as opposed to staffers) sometimes take stands on moral issues - that would hurt them politically (rare but it happens)
- ferdo 13y ago
  > Many people enter the political realm to affect policy change. Most people I know in the political realm are looking for a paycheck without having the bother of producing anything.
  - showerst 13y ago
    At the risk of starting a politics flame war, I know/have known dozens of hill staffers, and to a person they're under paid and over worked. Their salaries are public, most of the low level people make < 35k (which doesn't go far in DC) for far longer than 40 hour work weeks. A cynic could say they're just resume padding to sell out later, but if you're trying to mooch off of the taxpayer, being a low level capitol staffer is NOT the way to go about it.
    - ferdo 13y ago
      Dangers of a Salaried Bureaucracy Ben Franklin, 1787 http://www.bartleby.com/268/8/12.html http://www.bartleby.com/268/8/12.html "Sir, there are two passions which have a powerful influence in the affairs of men. These are ambition and avarice—the love of power and the love of money. Separately, each of these has great force in prompting men to action; but, when united in view of the same object, they have, in many minds, the most violent effects. Place before the eyes of such men a post of honor, that shall, at the same time, be a place of profit, and they will move heaven and earth to obtain it. The vast number of such places it is that renders the British government so tempestuous. The struggles for them are the true source of all those factions which are perpetually dividing the nation, distracting its councils, hurrying it sometimes into fruitless and mischievous wars, and often compelling a submission to dishonorable terms of peace. And of what kind are the men that will strive for this profitable preeminence, through all the bustle of cabal, the heat of contention, the infinite mutual abuse of parties, tearing to pieces the best of characters? It will not be the wise and moderate, the lovers of peace and good order, the men fittest for the trust. It will be the bold and the violent, the men of strong passions and indefatigable activity in their selfish pursuits. These will thrust themselves into your government and be your rulers. And these, too, will be mistaken in the expected happiness of their situation, for their vanquished competitors, of the same spirit, and from the same motives, will perpetually be endeavoring to distress their administration, thwart their measures, and render them odious to the people."
foobarbazqux 13y ago
Account created more than one hour ago. Troll. Pick one.
6d0debc071 13y ago
Oh that is so untrue. Not everything to do with politics is the party political system. I've worked with planning officers and researchers who work in government before, and many of them are really nice people who are honestly trying to do their best for the people around them and the places they live. Lots of people just spend their lives trying to research how to make the world a little less crap, or planning infrastructure, or trying to keep people in housing. With limited resources, and a system that backfires on them from time to time because they've relatively little power in the grand scheme of things (depending on government structure and incentives) but that doesn't make them bad people.

Politics. Honest career. Pick one.

by ddq 13y ago

Politics. Honest career. Pick one.

rbanffy 13y ago

If you are honest and don't want to enter politics, you cannot complain when less honest folks do so.

VladRussian2 13y ago
If you are honest and don't want to rob other people, you cannot complain when less honest folks do so.
- 6d0debc071 13y ago
  That's actually a pretty good argument if there were a more or less constant number of robbers. In a situation where you were definitely going to be robbed - as seems to be the case if you want it to be analogous with government: Would you rather be robbed by a complete drugged out psychopath who'll kill you if you twitch or someone relatively calm who definitely won't kill you if you just hand over the money?
  - VladRussian2 13y ago
    nice turn. Drugged out psychopaths can't organize into long functioning multi-layered mafia organizations who would control whole cities and whose extortion activities go well beyond simple robberies of private citizens where is the "nice" guys can and do.
    - 6d0debc071 13y ago
      Are you claiming that evil people are stupid? I'm not sure what the analogous risk is meant to be for governments there - they already seem plenty organised.

pvnick 13y ago

My brother, a great guy, is starting his degree in civil engineering and is seriously considering one day working for the government to help develop systems that deliver water to people whom would otherwise not have enough water to survive. Should Anonymous hack his email account and dump his passwords on the internet?

dmix 13y ago
You mean everyone should give your brother a reasonable expectation of privacy regarding his online information? Totally agree.
VladRussian2 13y ago
>a great guy, is starting his degree in civil engineering yep, sounds like he is just young and thus naive. > working for the government to help develop systems that deliver water to people whom would otherwise not have enough water to survive. government and water at places where not enough water ... what can go wrong here ... Chinatown.
- foobarbazqux 13y ago
  What happened in Chinatown?
  - VladRussian2 13y ago
    http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0071315/ http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0071315/ As a sidenote, it is interesting that water issues underlie so much CA politics even now, many decades later, and will continue to do so in the foreseeable future.
    - foobarbazqux 13y ago
      Oh, I've seen it, I was referring to this: http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0071315/faq#.2.1.3 http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0071315/faq#.2.1.3

antoko 13y ago

These aren't politicians they're staffers. Many people enter the political realm to affect policy change. Many of these people are driven by a desire to do good. You are painting with too broad a brush and your comment doesn't really add anything to the conversation. Do some people enter politics because they just want power or they want to polish their ego? Sure! But that doesn't mean everyone in the industry is inherently a bad actor. Even politicians (as opposed to staffers) sometimes take stands on moral issues - that would hurt them politically (rare but it happens)

ferdo 13y ago
> Many people enter the political realm to affect policy change. Most people I know in the political realm are looking for a paycheck without having the bother of producing anything.
- showerst 13y ago
  At the risk of starting a politics flame war, I know/have known dozens of hill staffers, and to a person they're under paid and over worked. Their salaries are public, most of the low level people make < 35k (which doesn't go far in DC) for far longer than 40 hour work weeks. A cynic could say they're just resume padding to sell out later, but if you're trying to mooch off of the taxpayer, being a low level capitol staffer is NOT the way to go about it.
  - ferdo 13y ago
    Dangers of a Salaried Bureaucracy Ben Franklin, 1787 http://www.bartleby.com/268/8/12.html http://www.bartleby.com/268/8/12.html "Sir, there are two passions which have a powerful influence in the affairs of men. These are ambition and avarice—the love of power and the love of money. Separately, each of these has great force in prompting men to action; but, when united in view of the same object, they have, in many minds, the most violent effects. Place before the eyes of such men a post of honor, that shall, at the same time, be a place of profit, and they will move heaven and earth to obtain it. The vast number of such places it is that renders the British government so tempestuous. The struggles for them are the true source of all those factions which are perpetually dividing the nation, distracting its councils, hurrying it sometimes into fruitless and mischievous wars, and often compelling a submission to dishonorable terms of peace. And of what kind are the men that will strive for this profitable preeminence, through all the bustle of cabal, the heat of contention, the infinite mutual abuse of parties, tearing to pieces the best of characters? It will not be the wise and moderate, the lovers of peace and good order, the men fittest for the trust. It will be the bold and the violent, the men of strong passions and indefatigable activity in their selfish pursuits. These will thrust themselves into your government and be your rulers. And these, too, will be mistaken in the expected happiness of their situation, for their vanquished competitors, of the same spirit, and from the same motives, will perpetually be endeavoring to distress their administration, thwart their measures, and render them odious to the people."

foobarbazqux 13y ago

Account created more than one hour ago. Troll. Pick one.

6d0debc071 13y ago

Oh that is so untrue. Not everything to do with politics is the party political system. I've worked with planning officers and researchers who work in government before, and many of them are really nice people who are honestly trying to do their best for the people around them and the places they live. Lots of people just spend their lives trying to research how to make the world a little less crap, or planning infrastructure, or trying to keep people in housing. With limited resources, and a system that backfires on them from time to time because they've relatively little power in the grand scheme of things (depending on government structure and incentives) but that doesn't make them bad people.