5 ms·

"the component, an emergency locator transmitter powered by lithium-manganese dioxide batteries" So not the same batteries as the last time apparently. I wond

by jlgreco 13y ago

"the component, an emergency locator transmitter powered by lithium-manganese dioxide batteries" So not the same batteries as the last time apparently. I wonder if they made the same "fireproof box enclosure" change to these batteries as they did the others. If these batteries were similarly isolated and still caused a fire that bad, that doesn't say very good things about the continued state of battery safety on those planes.

jordanb 13y ago
This device wasn't in a battery enclosure. The ELT is a stand-alone device installed in the crown of the aircraft. According to the article, it was produced by Honeywell and there are 6,000 currently installed in aircraft of various types. ELTs used to use NiCd batteries. I know there have been fire problems with ELT batteries on Cessnas and other GA aircraft in recent years. It sounds like the 787 was just doubly unlucky to be the commercial frame to get an ELT fire.
- jlgreco 13y ago
  Ah, that's good then. Hopefully for Boeing the PR stays under control.
fnordfnordfnord 13y ago
No, these are not rechargeable as far as I am aware. RESCU 406 SE2 lists a battery life of 12 years. I don't know which the 787 is equipped with. https://commerce.honeywell.com/webapp/wcs/stores/servlet/NECategoryDisplay?storeId=10651&catalogId=10251&langId=-1&categoryId=53518&cacheId=1000000000000001 https://commerce.honeywell.com/webapp/wcs/stores/servlet/NEC...
ubernostrum 13y ago
This transmitter whose battery is implicated is a stock, off-the-shelf component used in multiple models of aircraft. It is not unique to the 787, was not developed for the 787, and it seems to be an unfortunate coincidence that the failure of one of those units occurred in a 787, when allegedly something like 6000 of these transmitter units have been in service for nearly a decade. Honeywell (which makes the transmitter) may be in for trouble, but apparently Boeing's stock price has rebounded a bit since people in the market actually, you know, read the available information and realized this isn't a "Boeing 787 battery problem". Of course, I'm sure that any moment Elon Musk (PBUH) will be along to explain why the entire aviation industry was wrong to use these transmitters.
- CamperBob2 13y ago
  Of course, I'm sure that any moment Elon Musk (PBUH) will be along to explain why the entire aviation industry was wrong to use these transmitters. Was he wrong in his assessment of the original 787 battery overheating issue? You realize that they still have no earthly idea what happened to the batteries involved in the earlier incidents, correct? The "fix," such as it is, simply involves the implementation of more robust containment measures.
  - ubernostrum 13y ago
    Was he wrong in his assessment of the original 787 battery overheating issue? Everything Elon (PBUH) declares is truth beyond question. Allow me to state that up-front so as to appease his followers. You realize that they still have no earthly idea what happened to the batteries involved in the earlier incidents, correct? And you realize you're replying to a comment which wasn't about the earlier incidents except insofar as it pointed out that this incident seems to be unrelated and really appears to just be an off-the-shelf component failing in a way that it could have failed on any of the other aircraft types it's deployed in? My reference to Elon Musk (PBUH) was mostly because I'm already seeing in this thread the same sort of frankly religious worship of Elon (PBUH) we saw during the incidents which were unique to the 787, and I make a point of hammering on that whenever possible, since although Elon (PBUH) is a smart guy who does cool stuff, he's not quite at the divine-omniscience level seemingly attributed to him any time the 787 gets mentioned on HN.
    - MortenK 13y ago
      What's PBUH?
      - taejo 13y ago
        "Peace Be Upon Him" -- usually used for the Prophet Mohammed.
    - CamperBob2 13y ago
      Nobody brought up Elon (PBUH) until you did, with an oblique reference to his earlier comments on the 787 battery issues.
danmaz74 13y ago
I wonder if the composite material the 787 is made of didn't increase the risk that a fire like that spread, though. It seems incredibly unlikely that this is the first time that part took fire.
aidenn0 13y ago
FYI LiMnO2 is the chemistry used in a lot of coin cells (any battery that starts with "CR" is one, such as the CR2032 used for BIOS RTC/SRAM) It's commonly used for items that will use very low-power for a very long time, with possible high-current pulses, which makes it great for alarms (it's also a common chemistry in "lifetime battery" smoke alarms, for example). Larger lithium primary cells are a fire-risk (and are not permitted for passenger carry unless installed in a device).

by jlgreco 13y ago

jordanb 13y ago

This device wasn't in a battery enclosure. The ELT is a stand-alone device installed in the crown of the aircraft. According to the article, it was produced by Honeywell and there are 6,000 currently installed in aircraft of various types. ELTs used to use NiCd batteries. I know there have been fire problems with ELT batteries on Cessnas and other GA aircraft in recent years. It sounds like the 787 was just doubly unlucky to be the commercial frame to get an ELT fire.

jlgreco 13y ago
Ah, that's good then. Hopefully for Boeing the PR stays under control.

fnordfnordfnord 13y ago

No, these are not rechargeable as far as I am aware. RESCU 406 SE2 lists a battery life of 12 years. I don't know which the 787 is equipped with. https://commerce.honeywell.com/webapp/wcs/stores/servlet/NECategoryDisplay?storeId=10651&catalogId=10251&langId=-1&categoryId=53518&cacheId=1000000000000001 https://commerce.honeywell.com/webapp/wcs/stores/servlet/NEC...

ubernostrum 13y ago

This transmitter whose battery is implicated is a stock, off-the-shelf component used in multiple models of aircraft. It is not unique to the 787, was not developed for the 787, and it seems to be an unfortunate coincidence that the failure of one of those units occurred in a 787, when allegedly something like 6000 of these transmitter units have been in service for nearly a decade. Honeywell (which makes the transmitter) may be in for trouble, but apparently Boeing's stock price has rebounded a bit since people in the market actually, you know, read the available information and realized this isn't a "Boeing 787 battery problem". Of course, I'm sure that any moment Elon Musk (PBUH) will be along to explain why the entire aviation industry was wrong to use these transmitters.

CamperBob2 13y ago
Of course, I'm sure that any moment Elon Musk (PBUH) will be along to explain why the entire aviation industry was wrong to use these transmitters. Was he wrong in his assessment of the original 787 battery overheating issue? You realize that they still have no earthly idea what happened to the batteries involved in the earlier incidents, correct? The "fix," such as it is, simply involves the implementation of more robust containment measures.
- ubernostrum 13y ago
  Was he wrong in his assessment of the original 787 battery overheating issue? Everything Elon (PBUH) declares is truth beyond question. Allow me to state that up-front so as to appease his followers. You realize that they still have no earthly idea what happened to the batteries involved in the earlier incidents, correct? And you realize you're replying to a comment which wasn't about the earlier incidents except insofar as it pointed out that this incident seems to be unrelated and really appears to just be an off-the-shelf component failing in a way that it could have failed on any of the other aircraft types it's deployed in? My reference to Elon Musk (PBUH) was mostly because I'm already seeing in this thread the same sort of frankly religious worship of Elon (PBUH) we saw during the incidents which were unique to the 787, and I make a point of hammering on that whenever possible, since although Elon (PBUH) is a smart guy who does cool stuff, he's not quite at the divine-omniscience level seemingly attributed to him any time the 787 gets mentioned on HN.
  - MortenK 13y ago
    What's PBUH?
    - taejo 13y ago
      "Peace Be Upon Him" -- usually used for the Prophet Mohammed.
  - CamperBob2 13y ago
    Nobody brought up Elon (PBUH) until you did, with an oblique reference to his earlier comments on the 787 battery issues.

danmaz74 13y ago

I wonder if the composite material the 787 is made of didn't increase the risk that a fire like that spread, though. It seems incredibly unlikely that this is the first time that part took fire.

aidenn0 13y ago

FYI LiMnO2 is the chemistry used in a lot of coin cells (any battery that starts with "CR" is one, such as the CR2032 used for BIOS RTC/SRAM) It's commonly used for items that will use very low-power for a very long time, with possible high-current pulses, which makes it great for alarms (it's also a common chemistry in "lifetime battery" smoke alarms, for example). Larger lithium primary cells are a fire-risk (and are not permitted for passenger carry unless installed in a device).