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Could someone please remove Lennart Poettering - from the f..ing thread title? - from the discussion? That's beyond insane. Leave the man alone. Disagree all

Could someone please remove Lennart Poettering - from the f..ing thread title? - from the discussion? That's beyond insane. Leave the man alone. Disagree all you like, but this "Ah, that guy that ruined my life with Pulseaudio is now going to take over other stuff" whining, this crappy attitude _really_ needs to go. Start arguments against the technology, take part in the projects (-> here, Fedora) and vote against decisions you don't like, but don't start running around with pitchforks. That's really, really low.

naquad 13y ago
Oh! Indeed we forgot to talk about moral in UNIX-like OS software discussion. Oh my, how could we?..
- darklajid 13y ago
  You consider 'Remove that person please' a software discussion? In what world? Did you even discuss software? I see just an attack against a person and some vague anecdotes, "friends complain too", waive hand. Note that your post is infuriating, but the submission is worse. This thread is why title moderation has a right to exist (for future reference, given that I hope someone's going to fix the title: It was "Lennart Poettering wants to remove syslogd; use systemd journal instead").
  - lawl 13y ago
    Would you tell me what title you'd expect? I honestly don't know what you think is wrong with it. I don't think ranting against the title without providing a reason and/or better suggestion is very constructive.
    - darklajid 13y ago
      I considered that obvious. "F20 System Wide Change: No Default Syslog" would be a good choice: It's the subject (both 'the mail header called subject' and 'the subject to discuss') of the thread you linked to. Rephrasing that a la "Proposal to remove a syslog from Fedora default installations" would be fine. Dragging a person into the title is just asking for trouble and attacks and serves no purpose. The proposal is technical, the discussion should be technical. You deliberately put his name into the title. Why? And why just him, not both owners: Change owner(s): Lennart Poettering, Matthew Miller You had an agenda, even if it wasn't a conscious decision. That's just wrong (and not constructive either ;-p)
pbsdp 13y ago
I don't really understand what is low about it. Systemd didn't just appear one day; Poettering has written and advocated for it strongly.
- darklajid 13y ago
  - systemd isn't relevant to the discussion. Fedora already uses systemd (and the journal) - why in the world would you attack a person for writing software and lobbying for its usage? Even if you don't want to use it? I guess you could attack half of HN in that case And finally: - the linked thread is a proposal to remove a single package from the default installation of all Fedora distros. The package is still available for installation, just won't be installed automatically. That's the topic. Not the person behind the proposal, not the software that is already running on all current Fedora systems. That's just not the point. I'm a systemd fan, not that happy about journald/journalctl (mostly, because I'm not yet used to it and really just use journalctl -b or journalctl -f, which .. gives not enough benefits to make it 'nice' for me). So - should I insult Lennart, call for his 'removal'? It's low, because it distracts from the technical subject. Imagine your next proposal at work would lead to a 'Can someone please remove pbsdp' comment. Is there _ever_ a time when such a statement is acceptable? Would that count as taking part in a discussion?
  - Tobu 13y ago
    systemd's philosophy seems to be “bundle everything, attack anything we haven't assimilated”. The source is relevant.
    - darklajid 13y ago
      Really..? 'Attack'? Again: journal is already part of Fedora, enabled by default and doing its job. The whole discussion is whether a separate syslogd is going to be provided by default. Most people here _love_ Chef/Puppet etc. -> Just override the default and make sure that a syslogd is installed. Done. Nobody 'attacks' anything. Proponents of one module want to remove a redundancy. That's not an attack. Anecdote: I happen to know a thing or two about Tomboy (note taking app, written for Mono). Someone thought that Mono is 'teh ev!l' and created GNote, a more or less line by line port of Tomboy to a different language. Some distributions replaced Tomboy with GNote, after being convinced that it's the better choice. That's not an attack, it's potentially lobbying - or just plainly a matter of choice.

naquad 13y ago

Oh! Indeed we forgot to talk about moral in UNIX-like OS software discussion. Oh my, how could we?..

darklajid 13y ago
You consider 'Remove that person please' a software discussion? In what world? Did you even discuss software? I see just an attack against a person and some vague anecdotes, "friends complain too", waive hand. Note that your post is infuriating, but the submission is worse. This thread is why title moderation has a right to exist (for future reference, given that I hope someone's going to fix the title: It was "Lennart Poettering wants to remove syslogd; use systemd journal instead").
- lawl 13y ago
  Would you tell me what title you'd expect? I honestly don't know what you think is wrong with it. I don't think ranting against the title without providing a reason and/or better suggestion is very constructive.
  - darklajid 13y ago
    I considered that obvious. "F20 System Wide Change: No Default Syslog" would be a good choice: It's the subject (both 'the mail header called subject' and 'the subject to discuss') of the thread you linked to. Rephrasing that a la "Proposal to remove a syslog from Fedora default installations" would be fine. Dragging a person into the title is just asking for trouble and attacks and serves no purpose. The proposal is technical, the discussion should be technical. You deliberately put his name into the title. Why? And why just him, not both owners: Change owner(s): Lennart Poettering, Matthew Miller You had an agenda, even if it wasn't a conscious decision. That's just wrong (and not constructive either ;-p)

pbsdp 13y ago

I don't really understand what is low about it. Systemd didn't just appear one day; Poettering has written and advocated for it strongly.

darklajid 13y ago
- systemd isn't relevant to the discussion. Fedora already uses systemd (and the journal) - why in the world would you attack a person for writing software and lobbying for its usage? Even if you don't want to use it? I guess you could attack half of HN in that case And finally: - the linked thread is a proposal to remove a single package from the default installation of all Fedora distros. The package is still available for installation, just won't be installed automatically. That's the topic. Not the person behind the proposal, not the software that is already running on all current Fedora systems. That's just not the point. I'm a systemd fan, not that happy about journald/journalctl (mostly, because I'm not yet used to it and really just use journalctl -b or journalctl -f, which .. gives not enough benefits to make it 'nice' for me). So - should I insult Lennart, call for his 'removal'? It's low, because it distracts from the technical subject. Imagine your next proposal at work would lead to a 'Can someone please remove pbsdp' comment. Is there _ever_ a time when such a statement is acceptable? Would that count as taking part in a discussion?
- Tobu 13y ago
  systemd's philosophy seems to be “bundle everything, attack anything we haven't assimilated”. The source is relevant.
  - darklajid 13y ago
    Really..? 'Attack'? Again: journal is already part of Fedora, enabled by default and doing its job. The whole discussion is whether a separate syslogd is going to be provided by default. Most people here _love_ Chef/Puppet etc. -> Just override the default and make sure that a syslogd is installed. Done. Nobody 'attacks' anything. Proponents of one module want to remove a redundancy. That's not an attack. Anecdote: I happen to know a thing or two about Tomboy (note taking app, written for Mono). Someone thought that Mono is 'teh ev!l' and created GNote, a more or less line by line port of Tomboy to a different language. Some distributions replaced Tomboy with GNote, after being convinced that it's the better choice. That's not an attack, it's potentially lobbying - or just plainly a matter of choice.