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The Segway was demonstrably inferior to commonplace alternatives on simple metrics alone: speed, capacity, cost, safety, comfort. It was only hyped because it

The Segway was demonstrably inferior to commonplace alternatives on simple metrics alone: speed, capacity, cost, safety, comfort. It was only hyped because it was "cool". If the hyperloop, however it works, can duplicate the capabilities of a high speed rail system in terms of passenger throughput, speed, and waiting time and do so safely at much lower cost then even if was the uncoolest thing in the world it would still be of immense practical benefit.

jjindev 13y ago
High speed anything meets the Concorde problem - increasing cost for diminishing returns in trip time.
- duaneb 13y ago
  Yea, but any excuse to avoid the TSA.
  - shabble 13y ago
    what are the implications of serious damage to the pipe/waveguide? Either explosives from the inside or outside, or just damaging the support struts. If it's using the air-hockey principle, I'd expect reduced forward pressure to below the limit on which the vehicle can float, so it starts to skid along the ground, hopefully with enough inter-car spacing that you don't get a pileup. A less catastrophic situation might be, what happens if the pipe has a relatively minor leak due to subsidence or whatever? Just a loss of efficiency, or loss of function?
  - aneth4 13y ago
    Why is this always brought up? I fly several times a month. While the TSA is an annoyance and has silly policies, they have always been curteous and efficient. The only consideration I have for the TSA is that I can't bring knives on the plane and I need an extra 15 minutes for the line. Other than that they are innocuous to me.
    - kevinpet 13y ago
      I do not fly, and I have no intention of flying until I can do so without getting treated like a criminal. You may have a different opinion. It gets brought up because not all of the world shares your opinion.
      - aneth4 13y ago
        I don't find the experience of the TSA remotely like being a criminal. It's rather clear you have no idea what criminals are treated like. Generally the TSA x-rays my bags looking for weapons and makes me walk through a metal detector, then I go on my way. Sometimes the line is 15-20 minutes, though usually it's less than 5. Sometimes there's a millimeter wave body scanner that some might find intrusive - personally I couldn't care less if a TSA employee sees my junk, and those that object can opt for a pat down. Those that object to being touched might be better served by a therapist than a plane ride. This objection to flying because of the TSA is a psychological problem on your part and has nothing to do with reality. Unless you are carrying prohibited items - knives, liquids, etc - you will almost never encounter a problem with the TSA. Sure, the rule may be arbitrary and ridiculous, but they are not particularly onerous or oppressive either. I certainly make comments on bad policies and advocate for change. The system is nowhere close to the gestapo crazies seem to make it out to be. Of course, you're likely psychotically obsessed so this will mean nothing to you, but get some help.
        jlgreco 13y ago
        That's nice for you that you don't mind an invasion of privacy and think that those who do need to see a therapist. I love how you pretend to diagnosis mental health issues over the internet, maybe I should get into that game... Your claim that they do not treat people as criminals because you don't mind or encounter trouble is laughable. Some of us don't have a case of Stockholm Syndrome to sooth the abuse. Of course as someone who sympathizes with and advocates for your aggressors you won't understand where I am coming from, but get some help.
        marshray 13y ago
        > It's rather clear you have no idea what criminals are treated like. "I'm going to feel with my glove inside your waistband now..."
- InclinedPlane 13y ago
  Most of the value of air travel is in its speed and thus convenience. Personally I have yet to fly to a destination that was incapable of being reached by automobile. There are circumstances where the tradeoffs stop being worthwhile, but comparing anything "high speed" to the Concorde is a red herring.
stcredzero 13y ago
> The Segway was demonstrably inferior to commonplace alternatives on simple metrics alone: speed, capacity, cost, safety, comfort. Metrics are like statistics, in that they can also mislead. It's really about the experience in specific contexts. > It was only hyped because it was "cool". Actually, it failed because it just looked dorky. (Which Steve Jobs predicted in his secret meeting with Dean Kamen.) Good tech badly marketed sometimes still doesn't sell.
- salemh 13y ago
  I believe this is what you are referring to: http://hbswk.hbs.edu/archive/3533.html http://hbswk.hbs.edu/archive/3533.html "What does everyone think about the design?" asked Doerr, switching subjects. "What do you think?" said Jobs to Tim. It was a challenge, not a question. "I think it's coming along," said Tim, "though we expect—" "I think it sucks!" said Jobs. His vehemence made Tim pause. "Why?" he asked, a bit stiffly. "It just does." "In what sense?" said Tim, getting his feet back under him. "Give me a clue." "Its shape is not innovative, it's not elegant, it doesn't feel anthropomorphic," said Jobs, ticking off three of his design mantras. "You have this incredibly innovative machine but it looks very traditional." The last word delivered like a stab. ... "Screw the lead times. You don't have a great product yet! I know burn rates are important, but you'll only get one shot at this, and if you blow it, it's over."
  - stcredzero 13y ago
    That's exactly it.
- InclinedPlane 13y ago
  Dorky was just the icing on top, the reason why it failed was practicality. It cost many times more than even high end bicycles, without being faster, without being able to be used on streets, without having as much cargo capacity, and while depriving you of exercise. It cost many times more than a scooter, while being slower, having far less range, less cargo capacity, and not being usable on streets. And so on. If it had cost $200 it might have had a chance to find a niche, but at $3k or so it's just a toy.

jjindev 13y ago

High speed anything meets the Concorde problem - increasing cost for diminishing returns in trip time.

duaneb 13y ago
Yea, but any excuse to avoid the TSA.
- shabble 13y ago
  what are the implications of serious damage to the pipe/waveguide? Either explosives from the inside or outside, or just damaging the support struts. If it's using the air-hockey principle, I'd expect reduced forward pressure to below the limit on which the vehicle can float, so it starts to skid along the ground, hopefully with enough inter-car spacing that you don't get a pileup. A less catastrophic situation might be, what happens if the pipe has a relatively minor leak due to subsidence or whatever? Just a loss of efficiency, or loss of function?
- aneth4 13y ago
  Why is this always brought up? I fly several times a month. While the TSA is an annoyance and has silly policies, they have always been curteous and efficient. The only consideration I have for the TSA is that I can't bring knives on the plane and I need an extra 15 minutes for the line. Other than that they are innocuous to me.
  - kevinpet 13y ago
    I do not fly, and I have no intention of flying until I can do so without getting treated like a criminal. You may have a different opinion. It gets brought up because not all of the world shares your opinion.
    - aneth4 13y ago
      I don't find the experience of the TSA remotely like being a criminal. It's rather clear you have no idea what criminals are treated like. Generally the TSA x-rays my bags looking for weapons and makes me walk through a metal detector, then I go on my way. Sometimes the line is 15-20 minutes, though usually it's less than 5. Sometimes there's a millimeter wave body scanner that some might find intrusive - personally I couldn't care less if a TSA employee sees my junk, and those that object can opt for a pat down. Those that object to being touched might be better served by a therapist than a plane ride. This objection to flying because of the TSA is a psychological problem on your part and has nothing to do with reality. Unless you are carrying prohibited items - knives, liquids, etc - you will almost never encounter a problem with the TSA. Sure, the rule may be arbitrary and ridiculous, but they are not particularly onerous or oppressive either. I certainly make comments on bad policies and advocate for change. The system is nowhere close to the gestapo crazies seem to make it out to be. Of course, you're likely psychotically obsessed so this will mean nothing to you, but get some help.
      - jlgreco 13y ago
        That's nice for you that you don't mind an invasion of privacy and think that those who do need to see a therapist. I love how you pretend to diagnosis mental health issues over the internet, maybe I should get into that game... Your claim that they do not treat people as criminals because you don't mind or encounter trouble is laughable. Some of us don't have a case of Stockholm Syndrome to sooth the abuse. Of course as someone who sympathizes with and advocates for your aggressors you won't understand where I am coming from, but get some help.
      - marshray 13y ago
        > It's rather clear you have no idea what criminals are treated like. "I'm going to feel with my glove inside your waistband now..."
InclinedPlane 13y ago
Most of the value of air travel is in its speed and thus convenience. Personally I have yet to fly to a destination that was incapable of being reached by automobile. There are circumstances where the tradeoffs stop being worthwhile, but comparing anything "high speed" to the Concorde is a red herring.

stcredzero 13y ago

> The Segway was demonstrably inferior to commonplace alternatives on simple metrics alone: speed, capacity, cost, safety, comfort. Metrics are like statistics, in that they can also mislead. It's really about the experience in specific contexts. > It was only hyped because it was "cool". Actually, it failed because it just looked dorky. (Which Steve Jobs predicted in his secret meeting with Dean Kamen.) Good tech badly marketed sometimes still doesn't sell.

salemh 13y ago
I believe this is what you are referring to: http://hbswk.hbs.edu/archive/3533.html http://hbswk.hbs.edu/archive/3533.html "What does everyone think about the design?" asked Doerr, switching subjects. "What do you think?" said Jobs to Tim. It was a challenge, not a question. "I think it's coming along," said Tim, "though we expect—" "I think it sucks!" said Jobs. His vehemence made Tim pause. "Why?" he asked, a bit stiffly. "It just does." "In what sense?" said Tim, getting his feet back under him. "Give me a clue." "Its shape is not innovative, it's not elegant, it doesn't feel anthropomorphic," said Jobs, ticking off three of his design mantras. "You have this incredibly innovative machine but it looks very traditional." The last word delivered like a stab. ... "Screw the lead times. You don't have a great product yet! I know burn rates are important, but you'll only get one shot at this, and if you blow it, it's over."
- stcredzero 13y ago
  That's exactly it.
InclinedPlane 13y ago
Dorky was just the icing on top, the reason why it failed was practicality. It cost many times more than even high end bicycles, without being faster, without being able to be used on streets, without having as much cargo capacity, and while depriving you of exercise. It cost many times more than a scooter, while being slower, having far less range, less cargo capacity, and not being usable on streets. And so on. If it had cost $200 it might have had a chance to find a niche, but at $3k or so it's just a toy.