4 ms·

Seems to me like the horrendous part is the bit where you take a citizen, accuse them of terrorism, stick them on a "kill list" (wtf!), then execute them withou

by swombat 13y ago

Seems to me like the horrendous part is the bit where you take a citizen, accuse them of terrorism, stick them on a "kill list" (wtf!), then execute them without further due process of law. Bear in mind that "terrorism" now covers people like an 82-year old catholic nun demonstrating at a nuclear plant. If that's not anti-constitutional, your constitution ain't worth shit. If it is anti-constitutional, your system of "checks and balances" ain't worth shit. Either way something fundamental is very broken there.

ankitml 13y ago
It is not something, Government of USA is running lots of programs without any checks and balances necessary for a functional democracy. And surprisingly, this very govt is interested in bringing democracy to other countries.
- pygy_ 13y ago
  There's a running joke about that. I feel weird linking to an image macro on HN, but it is sadly relevant. http://cdn.memegenerator.net/instances/250x250/34530200.jpg http://cdn.memegenerator.net/instances/250x250/34530200.jpg
- Theory5 13y ago
  Yea, we liberate the SHIT out of other countries.
jasonkolb 13y ago
I would also like to point out that merely taking a video of animals is now--according to utah--an act that transforms you into a terrorist. The abuses have only just begun. Http://m.deseretnews.com/article/865550866/House-passes-bill-to-stop-animal-rights-terrorists--shooting-video-on-farms.html?pg=all [Edit: Utah's house, not the US congress]
- CrazedGeek 13y ago
  I would like to point out that that was the Utah House, not the United States Congress. (EDIT: In case this looks like an argument it isn't, parent's comment originally referred to "our congress".)
lifeisstillgood 13y ago
The first para here (http://www.guardian.co.uk/commentisfree/2013/feb/05/obama-kill-list-doj-memo http://www.guardian.co.uk/commentisfree/2013/feb/05/obama-ki...) The most extremist power any political leader can assert is the power to target his own citizens for execution without any charges or due process, far from any battlefield. The Obama administration has not only asserted exactly that power in theory, but has exercised it in practice. Even as a UK citizen I shall recite the following: Dear Mr Franklin, Sorry its taken me a while to catch up. I promise to stay on the ball from now on.
- Timothee 13y ago
  Dear Mr Franklin, Sorry its taken me a while to catch up. I promise to stay on the ball from now on. What is this referring to? Google brings up nothing at all on this paragraph.
  - lmm 13y ago
    I think it's a reference to his quote about those who will give up liberty for security
  - lifeisstillgood 13y ago
    It is an imaginary speech to Ben F. apologising to all the Founding Fathers for forgetting to keep watch.
rayiner 13y ago
> Seems to me like the horrendous part is the bit where you take a citizen, accuse them of terrorism, stick them on a "kill list" (wtf!), then execute them without further due process of law. That's not what was done with Al Awalki. He was on a kill list because it wasn't possible to bring him in alive, because he was hiding in Yemen. The Constitution has never protected fugitives who hide out in order to evade capture and a trial (the old west "wanted: dead or alive"). The Constitution just guarantees you "due process." This almost always means a trial, but it does not mean that the government has to give you a trial regardless of the circumstances.
- amerika_blog 13y ago
  > That's not what was done with Al Awalki. He was on a kill list because it wasn't possible to bring him in alive, because he was hiding in Yemen. Do we have rules about foreign assassinations and their legality? I seem to recall in the Clinton years it was considered a big deal to snuff someone in another nation. Often, we've relied on foreign intelligence services -- like Mossad -- to do it for us. I have no idea what I think about droning, except that in my experience, technological ability always takes precedence over legal and moral fictions. In other words, if we can do it, other guys can do it, and so we use it to keep up.

by swombat 13y ago

ankitml 13y ago

It is not something, Government of USA is running lots of programs without any checks and balances necessary for a functional democracy. And surprisingly, this very govt is interested in bringing democracy to other countries.

pygy_ 13y ago
There's a running joke about that. I feel weird linking to an image macro on HN, but it is sadly relevant. http://cdn.memegenerator.net/instances/250x250/34530200.jpg http://cdn.memegenerator.net/instances/250x250/34530200.jpg
Theory5 13y ago
Yea, we liberate the SHIT out of other countries.

jasonkolb 13y ago

I would also like to point out that merely taking a video of animals is now--according to utah--an act that transforms you into a terrorist. The abuses have only just begun. Http://m.deseretnews.com/article/865550866/House-passes-bill-to-stop-animal-rights-terrorists--shooting-video-on-farms.html?pg=all [Edit: Utah's house, not the US congress]

CrazedGeek 13y ago
I would like to point out that that was the Utah House, not the United States Congress. (EDIT: In case this looks like an argument it isn't, parent's comment originally referred to "our congress".)

lifeisstillgood 13y ago

The first para here (http://www.guardian.co.uk/commentisfree/2013/feb/05/obama-kill-list-doj-memo http://www.guardian.co.uk/commentisfree/2013/feb/05/obama-ki...) The most extremist power any political leader can assert is the power to target his own citizens for execution without any charges or due process, far from any battlefield. The Obama administration has not only asserted exactly that power in theory, but has exercised it in practice. Even as a UK citizen I shall recite the following: Dear Mr Franklin, Sorry its taken me a while to catch up. I promise to stay on the ball from now on.

Timothee 13y ago
Dear Mr Franklin, Sorry its taken me a while to catch up. I promise to stay on the ball from now on. What is this referring to? Google brings up nothing at all on this paragraph.
- lmm 13y ago
  I think it's a reference to his quote about those who will give up liberty for security
- lifeisstillgood 13y ago
  It is an imaginary speech to Ben F. apologising to all the Founding Fathers for forgetting to keep watch.

rayiner 13y ago

> Seems to me like the horrendous part is the bit where you take a citizen, accuse them of terrorism, stick them on a "kill list" (wtf!), then execute them without further due process of law. That's not what was done with Al Awalki. He was on a kill list because it wasn't possible to bring him in alive, because he was hiding in Yemen. The Constitution has never protected fugitives who hide out in order to evade capture and a trial (the old west "wanted: dead or alive"). The Constitution just guarantees you "due process." This almost always means a trial, but it does not mean that the government has to give you a trial regardless of the circumstances.

amerika_blog 13y ago
> That's not what was done with Al Awalki. He was on a kill list because it wasn't possible to bring him in alive, because he was hiding in Yemen. Do we have rules about foreign assassinations and their legality? I seem to recall in the Clinton years it was considered a big deal to snuff someone in another nation. Often, we've relied on foreign intelligence services -- like Mossad -- to do it for us. I have no idea what I think about droning, except that in my experience, technological ability always takes precedence over legal and moral fictions. In other words, if we can do it, other guys can do it, and so we use it to keep up.