5 ms·

You won't get very far figuring in general terms about "Americans." I'm an American, and I wasn't in favor of a retaliatory invasion, even in 2003. That said,

You won't get very far figuring in general terms about "Americans." I'm an American, and I wasn't in favor of a retaliatory invasion, even in 2003. That said, where the public stands has relatively little to do with the US's actions. the Iraq and Afghanistan invasions were knee-jerk actions made supported by people who were acting under information that later turned out to be totally false. The current drone strikes weren't ever a serious ballet issue. In fact, I daresay most conflicts in which the US has been engaged in the last 40 years were initiated with very little regard as to public consent beyond "will they riot if we do this?"

Volpe 13y ago
I always hear this from amercians. If you are going to boast about being 'free' and 'democratic' then you 'support' whoever is running the administration (that's how democracy works, the majority "Wins" the support of the people). Have some personal accountability. Or else, you are not free, nor a democracy.
- dkokelley 13y ago
  I know this gets brought up often, but you understand America is not a true democracy. We elect our leaders, but we don't vote on their decisions. Inherent in our system of government is a very long and arduous feedback loop between leadership decisions and citizen support and approval. For instance, the Obama administration is on its second term right now. There can be no reelection for our current president. He has four years to act without concerning himself with voter approval. To protect against our executive branch going rouge there are other checks we have in place such as judges and legislatures. What is happening right now in America is a struggle between our three branches of government.
  - Volpe 13y ago
    Drone strikes, and assassinations were occurring before his reelection... So I'm not sure how anyone can argue "We didn't get a chance to vote him out"... as you actually did. While I agree with you, it is more complex than I simplified it. It is that general apathy of americans that lets administrations get so out of control.
    - robryan 13y ago
      Was the alternative likely to be any better on this front though?
      - Proleps 13y ago
        I always find this a bit weird, you only get to choose between two parties. The difference with China doesn't seem that big, they only get to vote on one party less.
        randomchars 13y ago
        But you have more than two parties don't you? Not that it matters, more parties don't have significant advantages. It's just that there is a bigger pool of crooks.
        Proleps 13y ago
        I think it does matter. In the Netherlands you are able to vote right wing without the religion, or even vote on a religious left wing party. There are party differences between how we should handle a lot of different issues. It is easier to find a party you agree with. Party sizes vary greatly after elections which means politicians feel the consequences of their actions. It is not perfect of course, but it is better. The weird thing is that it is possible to have multiple parties in the US, but they never get enough votes. This makes it seem like their has to be a lot of corruption.
        veidr 13y ago
        It matters, similarly to haow it matters that you have more choice in Internet providers than a binary choice of either 1) cable or 2) telco-provided DSL. Countries where multiple parties feasibly compete have the possibility, at least, of a disruptive new party taking share. The American system, like the American ISP market in most of the country, is so rigged for the two corrupt incumbents that you basically always have a choice of light dark gray or dark light gray. I live in Japan where we have a wide range of competing ISPs and political parties. Both Internet service and political representation are vastly better than in my native USA. (Admittedly, the former more so than the latter...)
  - insuffi 13y ago
    I think he touches on the propaganda machine america has. You can't claim to be the best in the world if you don't lead the world in any categories; you can't claim to be the superior developing country, if you're infant mortality rate competes with the 3rd world countries; you can't claim that what makes america special is freedom, because 180 countries in the world have that, and freedom isn't even up to a very high standard here as of late.(especially relative to some socially liberal regions such as scandinavia).
- philwelch 13y ago
  I'd love to see some country in the world where voters are wise and altruistic and empathetic about people on the other side of the world, rather than self-interested and easily manipulated.
- sliverstorm 13y ago
  What, so if we voted them into office that means we automatically support & approve everything they might do?
tomp 13y ago
You're confirming his/her point exactly - Americans don't care. But I (and probably the whole rest of the world) bet that they/you would if the wars were closer to home.
madaxe 13y ago
You're right, America is still #1! In human rights abuses, illegal wars, prison population, and all of those other great things that you're all so damn proud of.
dendory 13y ago
It's completely legitimate to say Americans for acts done by your government, because you have a democracy. You don't get to have it both ways. If too many people are apathetic and don't care enough what the US military does to thousands of people all over the world rather than stop it, then be ready to accept the responsibility.
- fixedd 13y ago
  The United States is a Democratic Republic, not a Democracy.

Volpe 13y ago

I always hear this from amercians. If you are going to boast about being 'free' and 'democratic' then you 'support' whoever is running the administration (that's how democracy works, the majority "Wins" the support of the people). Have some personal accountability. Or else, you are not free, nor a democracy.

dkokelley 13y ago
I know this gets brought up often, but you understand America is not a true democracy. We elect our leaders, but we don't vote on their decisions. Inherent in our system of government is a very long and arduous feedback loop between leadership decisions and citizen support and approval. For instance, the Obama administration is on its second term right now. There can be no reelection for our current president. He has four years to act without concerning himself with voter approval. To protect against our executive branch going rouge there are other checks we have in place such as judges and legislatures. What is happening right now in America is a struggle between our three branches of government.
- Volpe 13y ago
  Drone strikes, and assassinations were occurring before his reelection... So I'm not sure how anyone can argue "We didn't get a chance to vote him out"... as you actually did. While I agree with you, it is more complex than I simplified it. It is that general apathy of americans that lets administrations get so out of control.
  - robryan 13y ago
    Was the alternative likely to be any better on this front though?
    - Proleps 13y ago
      I always find this a bit weird, you only get to choose between two parties. The difference with China doesn't seem that big, they only get to vote on one party less.
      - randomchars 13y ago
        But you have more than two parties don't you? Not that it matters, more parties don't have significant advantages. It's just that there is a bigger pool of crooks.
        Proleps 13y ago
        I think it does matter. In the Netherlands you are able to vote right wing without the religion, or even vote on a religious left wing party. There are party differences between how we should handle a lot of different issues. It is easier to find a party you agree with. Party sizes vary greatly after elections which means politicians feel the consequences of their actions. It is not perfect of course, but it is better. The weird thing is that it is possible to have multiple parties in the US, but they never get enough votes. This makes it seem like their has to be a lot of corruption.
        veidr 13y ago
        It matters, similarly to haow it matters that you have more choice in Internet providers than a binary choice of either 1) cable or 2) telco-provided DSL. Countries where multiple parties feasibly compete have the possibility, at least, of a disruptive new party taking share. The American system, like the American ISP market in most of the country, is so rigged for the two corrupt incumbents that you basically always have a choice of light dark gray or dark light gray. I live in Japan where we have a wide range of competing ISPs and political parties. Both Internet service and political representation are vastly better than in my native USA. (Admittedly, the former more so than the latter...)
- insuffi 13y ago
  I think he touches on the propaganda machine america has. You can't claim to be the best in the world if you don't lead the world in any categories; you can't claim to be the superior developing country, if you're infant mortality rate competes with the 3rd world countries; you can't claim that what makes america special is freedom, because 180 countries in the world have that, and freedom isn't even up to a very high standard here as of late.(especially relative to some socially liberal regions such as scandinavia).
philwelch 13y ago
I'd love to see some country in the world where voters are wise and altruistic and empathetic about people on the other side of the world, rather than self-interested and easily manipulated.
sliverstorm 13y ago
What, so if we voted them into office that means we automatically support & approve everything they might do?

tomp 13y ago

You're confirming his/her point exactly - Americans don't care. But I (and probably the whole rest of the world) bet that they/you would if the wars were closer to home.

madaxe 13y ago

You're right, America is still #1! In human rights abuses, illegal wars, prison population, and all of those other great things that you're all so damn proud of.

dendory 13y ago

It's completely legitimate to say Americans for acts done by your government, because you have a democracy. You don't get to have it both ways. If too many people are apathetic and don't care enough what the US military does to thousands of people all over the world rather than stop it, then be ready to accept the responsibility.

fixedd 13y ago
The United States is a Democratic Republic, not a Democracy.