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He may have tightened up the restrictions on voting rings. I know one YC user who was banned, and the only issue was that he'd send out links to a couple of fr

He may have tightened up the restrictions on voting rings. I know one YC user who was banned, and the only issue was that he'd send out links to a couple of friends asking for upvotes. I feel that there's Catch-22 here - so few people browse/upvote in `/new` that one's practically forced to get friends to upvote, but then runs the risk of automated banhammer. More transparency would be great. It's ironic that pg calls for openness in government but governs HN behind closed doors.

hoodoof 13y ago
The NSA stands behind PG's shoulder and forces his reluctant finger onto the "hellban user" option.
bhauer 13y ago
I have made it a point to always visit the /new page when I stop by HN. (I also have show-dead enabled, but I've not really considered what it means that so many submissions are dead. I had thought that was caused by accidentally submitting something that had been submitted earlier.) Frankly, I find the /new page at least half as interesting as the front page, which is to say, quite interesting indeed. I recommend it to anyone looking for another bit of entertaining news on each visit.
- DanBC 13y ago
  If you accidentally re-submit an article you get taken to the previous submission, which now also has another upvote from you. I've posted a link from a banned domain before, and it was dead on submission but my account was ok. I strongly agree about /new - I feel it's important to visit and to upvote the interesting articles. (Sorry, my sentence structure sucks.)
redthrowaway 13y ago
>It's ironic that pg calls for openness in government but governs HN behind closed doors. It may be ironic, but it's not hypocritical. Rules that apply to governments need not, and should not, apply to private citizens or corporations. Government can't endorse a religion, but people are free to. Similarly, it would be bizarre if CEOs were voted for by employees. Government needs to be transparent in order to live up to the maxim that government should operate with the informed consent of the governed. Private entities have no such moral compulsion.
- RKoutnik 13y ago
  Very good point. pg's not under many of the compulsions that our government is, but I at least would like to see him live this one by example. Besides, this is Hacker News, shouldn't we strive for openness/tweaking?
- krapp 13y ago
  Every social website (I include forums in this category) is, at its core, someone's experiment in autocracy. There's no escaping this, however much power users might appear to have, the admin will do what the admin wants and mods are gods. Whether this implies anything by extension about the nature of governments or militaries I leave as a futile thought exercise for others.
  - X4 13y ago
    You are right, but I am not sure which social model would fit to everybody as comforting. Many people are offended by Anarchy and it remains a question to me if communities would actually be able to manage themselves or not. Do you have some more food of thought to share, that's quite interesting? :)
    - krapp 13y ago
      I don't have any real insight. If any user at all could ban or unban anyone else then it might be chaos. The autocratic nature of it comes from the fact that someone and not everyone controls the code and the server. How could you have true equality on a social site without giving users a dangerous level of privilege?
  - deleted 13y ago
    [deleted]
joshdance 13y ago
What are the rules on asking friends to vote? I am a rookie HN user and have heard rumors that it is looked down on, but haven't seen any official word.
- RKoutnik 13y ago
  Welcome! I hope your stay here is enjoyable and expands your knowledge. The FAQ/Guidelines, accessible at the bottom of the page, are a little shaky on voting rings. Try to avoid it if you can, and don't be disappointed if your submissions don't get upvotes, just keep shipping!
  - joshdance 13y ago
    Thanks RKoutnik. I like that. Just keep shipping. :)
- DanBC 13y ago
  It's really obvious when a bunch of brand new accounts post comments like "Great Work!" and nothing else. My own personal opinion (and I have no connection to the site or understanding of the rules) is that good, insightful, comments are welcome. So, people upvoting an article is okay, and those people making good interesting comments is okay. But a ring of people only ever upvoting articles from one site is bad. Again, this is just my opinion.
dfc 13y ago
"It's ironic that pg calls for openness in government but governs HN behind closed doors." Even if I accept the Alanis Morrisette definition of irony I still have trouble finding the irony in this situation. Administering a nation-state and administering an online community seem like two entirely separate endeavors.
pseut 13y ago
Giving the 'showdead' option is a form of openness. Anyone posting a new article gets dumped to '/new', so it may get visited more than one would think; it would be interesting to see some data on how frequently it gets hit (or on upvotes originating on /new vs on the main page.)

hoodoof 13y ago

The NSA stands behind PG's shoulder and forces his reluctant finger onto the "hellban user" option.

bhauer 13y ago

I have made it a point to always visit the /new page when I stop by HN. (I also have show-dead enabled, but I've not really considered what it means that so many submissions are dead. I had thought that was caused by accidentally submitting something that had been submitted earlier.) Frankly, I find the /new page at least half as interesting as the front page, which is to say, quite interesting indeed. I recommend it to anyone looking for another bit of entertaining news on each visit.

DanBC 13y ago
If you accidentally re-submit an article you get taken to the previous submission, which now also has another upvote from you. I've posted a link from a banned domain before, and it was dead on submission but my account was ok. I strongly agree about /new - I feel it's important to visit and to upvote the interesting articles. (Sorry, my sentence structure sucks.)

redthrowaway 13y ago

>It's ironic that pg calls for openness in government but governs HN behind closed doors. It may be ironic, but it's not hypocritical. Rules that apply to governments need not, and should not, apply to private citizens or corporations. Government can't endorse a religion, but people are free to. Similarly, it would be bizarre if CEOs were voted for by employees. Government needs to be transparent in order to live up to the maxim that government should operate with the informed consent of the governed. Private entities have no such moral compulsion.

RKoutnik 13y ago
Very good point. pg's not under many of the compulsions that our government is, but I at least would like to see him live this one by example. Besides, this is Hacker News, shouldn't we strive for openness/tweaking?
krapp 13y ago
Every social website (I include forums in this category) is, at its core, someone's experiment in autocracy. There's no escaping this, however much power users might appear to have, the admin will do what the admin wants and mods are gods. Whether this implies anything by extension about the nature of governments or militaries I leave as a futile thought exercise for others.
- X4 13y ago
  You are right, but I am not sure which social model would fit to everybody as comforting. Many people are offended by Anarchy and it remains a question to me if communities would actually be able to manage themselves or not. Do you have some more food of thought to share, that's quite interesting? :)
  - krapp 13y ago
    I don't have any real insight. If any user at all could ban or unban anyone else then it might be chaos. The autocratic nature of it comes from the fact that someone and not everyone controls the code and the server. How could you have true equality on a social site without giving users a dangerous level of privilege?
- deleted 13y ago
  [deleted]

joshdance 13y ago

What are the rules on asking friends to vote? I am a rookie HN user and have heard rumors that it is looked down on, but haven't seen any official word.

RKoutnik 13y ago
Welcome! I hope your stay here is enjoyable and expands your knowledge. The FAQ/Guidelines, accessible at the bottom of the page, are a little shaky on voting rings. Try to avoid it if you can, and don't be disappointed if your submissions don't get upvotes, just keep shipping!
- joshdance 13y ago
  Thanks RKoutnik. I like that. Just keep shipping. :)
DanBC 13y ago
It's really obvious when a bunch of brand new accounts post comments like "Great Work!" and nothing else. My own personal opinion (and I have no connection to the site or understanding of the rules) is that good, insightful, comments are welcome. So, people upvoting an article is okay, and those people making good interesting comments is okay. But a ring of people only ever upvoting articles from one site is bad. Again, this is just my opinion.

dfc 13y ago

"It's ironic that pg calls for openness in government but governs HN behind closed doors." Even if I accept the Alanis Morrisette definition of irony I still have trouble finding the irony in this situation. Administering a nation-state and administering an online community seem like two entirely separate endeavors.

pseut 13y ago

Giving the 'showdead' option is a form of openness. Anyone posting a new article gets dumped to '/new', so it may get visited more than one would think; it would be interesting to see some data on how frequently it gets hit (or on upvotes originating on /new vs on the main page.)