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Look at the Man on the Moon crop. It's clearly not just cropping off the sides. It's anchored to the right. I also doubt Netflix either has a smart algorithm th

by etler 13y ago

Look at the Man on the Moon crop. It's clearly not just cropping off the sides. It's anchored to the right. I also doubt Netflix either has a smart algorithm that can figure out the focus of the scene, or hires a bunch of people to choose the right focal point for every movie. They probably ask for movies from their providers in 16:9 format and they show whatever they get. They could ask for both formats and give users the choice, but I'm guessing there might be extra licensing costs to get both, and the majority of their users aren't cinephiles, and they just want their movies to fill the screen.

mikeryan 13y ago
Look at the Man on the Moon crop. It's clearly not just cropping off the sides. It's anchored to the right. That's what pan-and-scan is. Its done by the studio so they have some "artistic" control of how the cropping is done. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pan_and_scan https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pan_and_scan
- aspensmonster 13y ago
  I thought etler was saying that the Man on the Moon crop wasn't pan-and-scan at all. It was just a complete lopping off of the entire left portion of the film that didn't fit the aspect ratio.
  - ivanca 13y ago
    yeah there is no panning or scanning there, that's for sure.
  - mikeryan 13y ago
    I'm not saying its well done but just "cropping" would crop to the middle "lopping off the left portion" is a film thats "panned" to the right.
  - etler 13y ago
    I do believe it's pan and scan. I just didn't mention it because it wasn't really necessary in my point.
- jfb 13y ago
  It's not a 4:3 crop, though. I looks to be a full-frame 16:9 one. That makes me think that it's an artifact of Netflix's pipeline, not the encoding house's.
  - lelandbatey 13y ago
    However, the original aspect ratio of these films is 2.39:1, and they're being cropped down to 16:9.
  - mattstocum 13y ago
    The linked Wikipedia article is mistaken in stating that pan and scan applies only to 4:3. The same technique can, and often is, used to prevent letterboxing when showing a films shot at 2.35:1 on a 16:9 display.
- saurik 13y ago
  You seem to be arguing, but that's the guy's point: Netflix couldn't be doing this, because the decision in that frame to crop the left off isn't something an automated algorithm is going to do, nor is it reasonable to believe that Netflix has people going through making all of these decisions; the result is that we must believe that Netflix is being given these modified movies by the studios, as opposed it being Netflix's decision to make the modification (as proposed in etler's parent comment by mullingitover).
ctdonath 13y ago
Look at the Man on the Moon crop. It's clearly anchored to the right because the focus of the scene is the guy on the right talking, and since the quiet guy on the left has nothing to contribute to a cropped frame but half a head or so, the sensible (if uninspiring) solution is to show just the one guy talking. Overlooked in the outrage expressed is that movies are shot knowing that cropping will occur, and the scenes are often viewed with the cinematographer & director marking out which parts of the frame will be preserved for various formats. In the scene where Carrey is cropped out, he may very well have been positioned in the full frame such that if/when cropped to 16:9 he simply would not appear, rather than awkwardly have just his arm show while sensibly trying to preserve enough of the speaker within the frame. http://library.creativecow.net/carlin_paul/35mm-evolution/5 http://library.creativecow.net/carlin_paul/35mm-evolution/5 describes a variant of this, presenting and addressing (as a deliberate process!) a little-discussed variant: the 2.39:1 and 16:9 versions may be the ones in fact guilty of cutting off part of the scene, with the 4:3 frame containing the whole scene, and the others preserving the full width but dropping top & bottom portions to make them fit the narrowed frames.
- saurik 13y ago
  > Look at the Man on the Moon crop. It's clearly anchored to the right because the focus of the scene is the guy on the right talking, and since the quiet guy on the left has nothing to contribute to a cropped frame but half a head or so, the sensible (if uninspiring) solution is to show just the one guy talking. That's etler's point: you seem to be disagreeing and correcting, but all you are doing is restating what he said. The idea is that "clearly" (and we now have this said twice): this is not just a blind crop, this is a crop that took into account something that Netflix wouldn't know (who is speaking), so it is thereby an unjustifiable stretch to believe that Netflix is modifying the movies themselves (which is the premise that etler was responding to, if you re-read mullingitover's comment).
  - ctdonath 13y ago
    You're right. I misread etler's wording. (As usual, if there's two ways to interpret something, one obvious and one obscure, my brain will seize the obscure.) Must...sleep...

by etler 13y ago

mikeryan 13y ago

Look at the Man on the Moon crop. It's clearly not just cropping off the sides. It's anchored to the right. That's what pan-and-scan is. Its done by the studio so they have some "artistic" control of how the cropping is done. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pan_and_scan https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pan_and_scan

aspensmonster 13y ago
I thought etler was saying that the Man on the Moon crop wasn't pan-and-scan at all. It was just a complete lopping off of the entire left portion of the film that didn't fit the aspect ratio.
- ivanca 13y ago
  yeah there is no panning or scanning there, that's for sure.
- mikeryan 13y ago
  I'm not saying its well done but just "cropping" would crop to the middle "lopping off the left portion" is a film thats "panned" to the right.
- etler 13y ago
  I do believe it's pan and scan. I just didn't mention it because it wasn't really necessary in my point.
jfb 13y ago
It's not a 4:3 crop, though. I looks to be a full-frame 16:9 one. That makes me think that it's an artifact of Netflix's pipeline, not the encoding house's.
- lelandbatey 13y ago
  However, the original aspect ratio of these films is 2.39:1, and they're being cropped down to 16:9.
- mattstocum 13y ago
  The linked Wikipedia article is mistaken in stating that pan and scan applies only to 4:3. The same technique can, and often is, used to prevent letterboxing when showing a films shot at 2.35:1 on a 16:9 display.
saurik 13y ago
You seem to be arguing, but that's the guy's point: Netflix couldn't be doing this, because the decision in that frame to crop the left off isn't something an automated algorithm is going to do, nor is it reasonable to believe that Netflix has people going through making all of these decisions; the result is that we must believe that Netflix is being given these modified movies by the studios, as opposed it being Netflix's decision to make the modification (as proposed in etler's parent comment by mullingitover).

ctdonath 13y ago

Look at the Man on the Moon crop. It's clearly anchored to the right because the focus of the scene is the guy on the right talking, and since the quiet guy on the left has nothing to contribute to a cropped frame but half a head or so, the sensible (if uninspiring) solution is to show just the one guy talking. Overlooked in the outrage expressed is that movies are shot knowing that cropping will occur, and the scenes are often viewed with the cinematographer & director marking out which parts of the frame will be preserved for various formats. In the scene where Carrey is cropped out, he may very well have been positioned in the full frame such that if/when cropped to 16:9 he simply would not appear, rather than awkwardly have just his arm show while sensibly trying to preserve enough of the speaker within the frame. http://library.creativecow.net/carlin_paul/35mm-evolution/5 http://library.creativecow.net/carlin_paul/35mm-evolution/5 describes a variant of this, presenting and addressing (as a deliberate process!) a little-discussed variant: the 2.39:1 and 16:9 versions may be the ones in fact guilty of cutting off part of the scene, with the 4:3 frame containing the whole scene, and the others preserving the full width but dropping top & bottom portions to make them fit the narrowed frames.

saurik 13y ago
> Look at the Man on the Moon crop. It's clearly anchored to the right because the focus of the scene is the guy on the right talking, and since the quiet guy on the left has nothing to contribute to a cropped frame but half a head or so, the sensible (if uninspiring) solution is to show just the one guy talking. That's etler's point: you seem to be disagreeing and correcting, but all you are doing is restating what he said. The idea is that "clearly" (and we now have this said twice): this is not just a blind crop, this is a crop that took into account something that Netflix wouldn't know (who is speaking), so it is thereby an unjustifiable stretch to believe that Netflix is modifying the movies themselves (which is the premise that etler was responding to, if you re-read mullingitover's comment).
- ctdonath 13y ago
  You're right. I misread etler's wording. (As usual, if there's two ways to interpret something, one obvious and one obscure, my brain will seize the obscure.) Must...sleep...