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This is a country which Apple has never found easy - notably, Russia bans handset subsidies, making the iPhone an expensive option for most customers. Th

by vardump 13y ago

This is a country which Apple has never found easy - notably, Russia bans handset subsidies, making the iPhone an expensive option for most customers. The effect is exactly the opposite; those countries where phones are mainly subsidized have also the highest total cost of ownership and ARPU (average revenue per user). The subsidized phones aren't cheap, quite the opposite. Carrier subsidized model should be ended to bring down consumer telecommunication costs. It only benefits the carriers.

snitko 13y ago
That's very true. I'm in Russia and telecommunications are dirt cheap here. I barely spend $10 in 3 months on my cellphone (that's including occasional internet browsing, although unlimited traffic would cost you more). Broadband internet is also very cheap, my bill is $8/mo for a 30Mbps connection and unlimited traffic. I buy a new phone every 2 or 3 years. Go ahead and count on your own if I'm better off with this model.
- sigsergv 13y ago
  That's true for a few major cities maybe, in province prices a not so cheap.
aetherson 13y ago
Well, I think in context, what they mean is: Russia bans handset subsidies, so customers compare actual handset costs from one handset to the other, and notice that iPhones cost hundreds of dollars more than other smartphones, making them expensive relative to alternative handsets. Rather than: iPhones in Russia are expensive relative to iPhones in America.
- snitko 13y ago
  No man, you don't get it. MOST people in Russia really never buy expensive smartphones with subsidies. They actually pay the full price. My guess is, carriers tried this model, realized it doesn't really work very well and decided to dump it altogether.
  - aetherson 13y ago
    No, man, I really do get it. I understand they pay full price. The point is, iPhones are a premium smartphone. They intrinsically cost more than many other smartphones. If you're looking at the (full) price of an iPhone versus the (full) price of a non-flagship Android phone, the (full) price of the non-flagship Android phone is typically hundreds of dollars less than the (full) price of the iPhone.
    - gambiting 13y ago
      Hang on, you lost me here - why would we compare the price of the flagship Apple phone to the price of a non-flagship Android phone?
      - semiel 13y ago
        Because there are no non-flagship Apple phones.
        guiambros 13y ago
        What do you call the iPhone 4 or 4S then? Flagship-but-hundreds-of-dollars-less?
        jarek 13y ago
        Last year's model.
        guiambros 13y ago
        Exactly. And what's the difference between last year's model and non-flagship? Both have old-ish processor, old form factor. But recent software, and all the basic functionality -- just without the bells and whistles. The problem is that Apple doesn't have (yet) a portfolio strategy, so you still thinking in terms of when this product started to sell. Like cars. Or fashion. Despite if last year's model is better than yesterday's launch. Once they stop using sequential numbers and migrate to models - e.g., iPhone Pro, iPhone Air, iPhone Lite - you'll clearly understand what is flagship or non-flagship. But that's pure marketing/product positioning, nothing to do with the product itself. TL;DR: Apple already has a non-flagship product; it's just not clearly positioned as such. This is not a mistake; this is by design [1]. [1] http://www.asymco.com/2013/05/29/tim-cooks-answer-to-my-first-question/ http://www.asymco.com/2013/05/29/tim-cooks-answer-to-my-firs...
farmdawgnation 13y ago
> Carrier subsidized model should be ended to bring down consumer telecommunication costs. It only benefits the carriers. In the US at least, everyone has to get on LTE before that becomes a reality. Sprint and Verizon 3G and older handsets can't speak the same language, I don't think. AT&T and T-Mobile both use GSM based systems so phone calls are possible using a handset form the other carrier, but their 3G frequencies are different - so you're hosed on mobile data. So, there's a de-facto lock into a carrier with your device even if there isn't one in the contract. (And $600 for a new device just for a different carrier is a hard sell, in a world where subsidies are gone.) It's happening though. The problem is that companies like HTC charge the same price Apple does for the iPhone for what is a lower quality of product, in my experience. Once again, personal experience, but the number of hardware problems I've had within the walled garden of Apple are few compared to those in my Android days. And those that I've had have been fixed quickly by an Apple store representative, whereas with HTC or Verizon it was a multiple week ordeal. That's something that makes the product itself even more valuable to me.
- bretthoerner 13y ago
  I've always wondered: can a single phone have radios for all the different carriers? Could they share a single antenna? Could one be activated by the user selecting which network to get on?
  - jarek 13y ago
    I don't know about CDMA vs GSM, though I think it might work (there definitely are two-GSM-SIM phones, and GSM-and-CDMA doesn't seem philosophically different). Having a phone work on both AT&T and T-Mo, though, is easy, Galaxy Nexus or Nexus 4 can do that, just to name a couple of popular ones.
  - kalleboo 13y ago
    > can a single phone have radios for all the different carriers? All carriers in a single country? Yes, many do. All carriers worldwide? You'd be putting a lot of radios in the thing. > Could they share a single antenna? Not a radio expert, but I think each antenna has to be tailored to each wavelength. Maybe you can get away with one per band (one for 800-900, one for 1800-1900, one for 2100-2600) > Could one be activated by the user selecting which network to get on? You'd need a SIM card for each carrier you want and swap them out, and for American CDMA carriers you'd have to have your ESN registered with their networks beforehand.
alinspired 13y ago
It's about the culture of using prepaid vs contract phones, ie it's not like carriers don't understand ARPU, it's subscribers who stay away from contracts.

by vardump 13y ago

snitko 13y ago

That's very true. I'm in Russia and telecommunications are dirt cheap here. I barely spend $10 in 3 months on my cellphone (that's including occasional internet browsing, although unlimited traffic would cost you more). Broadband internet is also very cheap, my bill is $8/mo for a 30Mbps connection and unlimited traffic. I buy a new phone every 2 or 3 years. Go ahead and count on your own if I'm better off with this model.

sigsergv 13y ago
That's true for a few major cities maybe, in province prices a not so cheap.

aetherson 13y ago

Well, I think in context, what they mean is: Russia bans handset subsidies, so customers compare actual handset costs from one handset to the other, and notice that iPhones cost hundreds of dollars more than other smartphones, making them expensive relative to alternative handsets. Rather than: iPhones in Russia are expensive relative to iPhones in America.

snitko 13y ago
No man, you don't get it. MOST people in Russia really never buy expensive smartphones with subsidies. They actually pay the full price. My guess is, carriers tried this model, realized it doesn't really work very well and decided to dump it altogether.
- aetherson 13y ago
  No, man, I really do get it. I understand they pay full price. The point is, iPhones are a premium smartphone. They intrinsically cost more than many other smartphones. If you're looking at the (full) price of an iPhone versus the (full) price of a non-flagship Android phone, the (full) price of the non-flagship Android phone is typically hundreds of dollars less than the (full) price of the iPhone.
  - gambiting 13y ago
    Hang on, you lost me here - why would we compare the price of the flagship Apple phone to the price of a non-flagship Android phone?
    - semiel 13y ago
      Because there are no non-flagship Apple phones.
      - guiambros 13y ago
        What do you call the iPhone 4 or 4S then? Flagship-but-hundreds-of-dollars-less?
        jarek 13y ago
        Last year's model.
        guiambros 13y ago
        Exactly. And what's the difference between last year's model and non-flagship? Both have old-ish processor, old form factor. But recent software, and all the basic functionality -- just without the bells and whistles. The problem is that Apple doesn't have (yet) a portfolio strategy, so you still thinking in terms of when this product started to sell. Like cars. Or fashion. Despite if last year's model is better than yesterday's launch. Once they stop using sequential numbers and migrate to models - e.g., iPhone Pro, iPhone Air, iPhone Lite - you'll clearly understand what is flagship or non-flagship. But that's pure marketing/product positioning, nothing to do with the product itself. TL;DR: Apple already has a non-flagship product; it's just not clearly positioned as such. This is not a mistake; this is by design [1]. [1] http://www.asymco.com/2013/05/29/tim-cooks-answer-to-my-first-question/ http://www.asymco.com/2013/05/29/tim-cooks-answer-to-my-firs...

farmdawgnation 13y ago

> Carrier subsidized model should be ended to bring down consumer telecommunication costs. It only benefits the carriers. In the US at least, everyone has to get on LTE before that becomes a reality. Sprint and Verizon 3G and older handsets can't speak the same language, I don't think. AT&T and T-Mobile both use GSM based systems so phone calls are possible using a handset form the other carrier, but their 3G frequencies are different - so you're hosed on mobile data. So, there's a de-facto lock into a carrier with your device even if there isn't one in the contract. (And $600 for a new device just for a different carrier is a hard sell, in a world where subsidies are gone.) It's happening though. The problem is that companies like HTC charge the same price Apple does for the iPhone for what is a lower quality of product, in my experience. Once again, personal experience, but the number of hardware problems I've had within the walled garden of Apple are few compared to those in my Android days. And those that I've had have been fixed quickly by an Apple store representative, whereas with HTC or Verizon it was a multiple week ordeal. That's something that makes the product itself even more valuable to me.

bretthoerner 13y ago
I've always wondered: can a single phone have radios for all the different carriers? Could they share a single antenna? Could one be activated by the user selecting which network to get on?
- jarek 13y ago
  I don't know about CDMA vs GSM, though I think it might work (there definitely are two-GSM-SIM phones, and GSM-and-CDMA doesn't seem philosophically different). Having a phone work on both AT&T and T-Mo, though, is easy, Galaxy Nexus or Nexus 4 can do that, just to name a couple of popular ones.
- kalleboo 13y ago
  > can a single phone have radios for all the different carriers? All carriers in a single country? Yes, many do. All carriers worldwide? You'd be putting a lot of radios in the thing. > Could they share a single antenna? Not a radio expert, but I think each antenna has to be tailored to each wavelength. Maybe you can get away with one per band (one for 800-900, one for 1800-1900, one for 2100-2600) > Could one be activated by the user selecting which network to get on? You'd need a SIM card for each carrier you want and swap them out, and for American CDMA carriers you'd have to have your ESN registered with their networks beforehand.

alinspired 13y ago

It's about the culture of using prepaid vs contract phones, ie it's not like carriers don't understand ARPU, it's subscribers who stay away from contracts.