4 ms·

I don't understand the connection you posit between wealth and not using automobiles. I would expect that there is if anything a positive correlation between w

by joeyo 17y ago

I don't understand the connection you posit between wealth and not using automobiles. I would expect that there is if anything a positive correlation between wealth and automobile use (though perhaps not between wealth and driving). At the very high end you may be right that helicopter, yacht and private jet transport could somewhat offset automobile use. But I would expect that that chauffeured cars still play a huge role in the transportation for the very wealthy. I wouldn't expect many of them to be using buses, trains and subways, for instance.

erlanger 17y ago
As you leave the city, transit options become increasingly sparse. The US lower-middle class cannot afford to live in the close suburbs, or even in the suburbs. I see it where I live: People commuting from Luray or Richmond to DC (about 2.5hr each way), or even farther, because their hometowns have no jobs. Without cars, this would not be possible, unless they were to uproot their families and move into a very poor part of the city, hence my reference to "squalid conditions."
- menloparkbum 17y ago
  This has changed a great deal recently with low budget airlines. It's been consistently cheaper for me to fly from SFO to LAX or SEA than it would be to drive. Even Boston to NYC it's often cheaper to fly.
- joeyo 17y ago
  Ok well the article is about eliminating cars within cities, so why the non-sequitur? edit: Regarding your point about commuting from extremely outlying "suburbs"--Richmond is over 100 mi from DC!--I agree that such insanity is only "sustainable" with the automobile[1]. This is why as our cities start to invert (again!) with the more desirable areas tending towards the center and the outlying suburbs becoming less and less desirable, it is important that we develop good regional rail links. 1. I note, however, that Fredericksburg, which is a "mere" 50 miles from DC has VRE service. It may even be possible to commute from Richmond to DC via Amtrak, but I'm not sure of their schedules or if a reasonable person would want to attempt that.
  - erlanger 17y ago
    There's no non-sequiter. Cities are not exclusively for city-dwellers, they support a sprawling metropolitan area that relies on cars.
  - randallsquared 17y ago
    I note, however, that Fredericksburg, which is a "mere" 50 miles from DC has VRE service. I live in the DC metro area, and I don't currently have a car, and I'm keenly aware of how it limits my options. I use the bus and metro to get to work in downtown DC from Gaithersburg, MD, and it's just at the edge of bearable for a limited time. I spend about 3 hours a day on public transit, and from Fredericksburg, VA, it would be even worse, unless I lived across the street from the VRE station. With a car, you get ready to go, and then you go. Without a car, you get ready to go, and then you either go wait by the bus stop, or you try to time yourself to get to the bus stop just a few minutes before it arrives. This mostly works, but it's certainly more trouble (and I say this as someone who has a bus stop directly in front of my apartment building; it isn't as if I even have to walk a few blocks to the bus, and it's still a pain). Going to the store is a project involving planning and giving up the evening to it, rather than something you can do just before your evening activities. Going anywhere else is something I nearly always have to put off until the weekend, since I leave for work before 7:30 AM and get home about 7:30 PM. If I used a car, I could do those things on the way home (though since I live so far out, I still wouldn't get home much earlier).
    - erlanger 17y ago
      I commuted from Fredericksburg to Reston for a little while last year. VRE->Alexandria(Blue)->Rosslyn(Transfer)->West Falls Church(Orange)->my bus. Minimum 2.5 hours each way. I had to do it for a week until I could afford new tires for my car, and driving cut my commute in half. I couldn't have kept up that commute, and I only had to do it for a month before I could afford to move back to DC. The worst part about mass transit are the time restrictions. If you miss the narrow time slot for your route (assuming it isn't used heavily enough to warrant 24-hour service), you're screwed and have to take a cab, which I'd say runs about $40 per $5 of mass transit.
- stcredzero 17y ago
  In Germany, many people take the train to another city. I had a coworker who did this, specifically because it was an economical way to take the whole family on a trip.

by joeyo 17y ago

erlanger 17y ago

As you leave the city, transit options become increasingly sparse. The US lower-middle class cannot afford to live in the close suburbs, or even in the suburbs. I see it where I live: People commuting from Luray or Richmond to DC (about 2.5hr each way), or even farther, because their hometowns have no jobs. Without cars, this would not be possible, unless they were to uproot their families and move into a very poor part of the city, hence my reference to "squalid conditions."

menloparkbum 17y ago
This has changed a great deal recently with low budget airlines. It's been consistently cheaper for me to fly from SFO to LAX or SEA than it would be to drive. Even Boston to NYC it's often cheaper to fly.
joeyo 17y ago
Ok well the article is about eliminating cars within cities, so why the non-sequitur? edit: Regarding your point about commuting from extremely outlying "suburbs"--Richmond is over 100 mi from DC!--I agree that such insanity is only "sustainable" with the automobile[1]. This is why as our cities start to invert (again!) with the more desirable areas tending towards the center and the outlying suburbs becoming less and less desirable, it is important that we develop good regional rail links. 1. I note, however, that Fredericksburg, which is a "mere" 50 miles from DC has VRE service. It may even be possible to commute from Richmond to DC via Amtrak, but I'm not sure of their schedules or if a reasonable person would want to attempt that.
- erlanger 17y ago
  There's no non-sequiter. Cities are not exclusively for city-dwellers, they support a sprawling metropolitan area that relies on cars.
- randallsquared 17y ago
  I note, however, that Fredericksburg, which is a "mere" 50 miles from DC has VRE service. I live in the DC metro area, and I don't currently have a car, and I'm keenly aware of how it limits my options. I use the bus and metro to get to work in downtown DC from Gaithersburg, MD, and it's just at the edge of bearable for a limited time. I spend about 3 hours a day on public transit, and from Fredericksburg, VA, it would be even worse, unless I lived across the street from the VRE station. With a car, you get ready to go, and then you go. Without a car, you get ready to go, and then you either go wait by the bus stop, or you try to time yourself to get to the bus stop just a few minutes before it arrives. This mostly works, but it's certainly more trouble (and I say this as someone who has a bus stop directly in front of my apartment building; it isn't as if I even have to walk a few blocks to the bus, and it's still a pain). Going to the store is a project involving planning and giving up the evening to it, rather than something you can do just before your evening activities. Going anywhere else is something I nearly always have to put off until the weekend, since I leave for work before 7:30 AM and get home about 7:30 PM. If I used a car, I could do those things on the way home (though since I live so far out, I still wouldn't get home much earlier).
  - erlanger 17y ago
    I commuted from Fredericksburg to Reston for a little while last year. VRE->Alexandria(Blue)->Rosslyn(Transfer)->West Falls Church(Orange)->my bus. Minimum 2.5 hours each way. I had to do it for a week until I could afford new tires for my car, and driving cut my commute in half. I couldn't have kept up that commute, and I only had to do it for a month before I could afford to move back to DC. The worst part about mass transit are the time restrictions. If you miss the narrow time slot for your route (assuming it isn't used heavily enough to warrant 24-hour service), you're screwed and have to take a cab, which I'd say runs about $40 per $5 of mass transit.
stcredzero 17y ago
In Germany, many people take the train to another city. I had a coworker who did this, specifically because it was an economical way to take the whole family on a trip.