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They say that GCHQ conforms with its statutory duties. Wasn't one of the statutory duties of GCHQ also industrial espionage? [1] So the mainstream political es

They say that GCHQ conforms with its statutory duties. Wasn't one of the statutory duties of GCHQ also industrial espionage? [1] So the mainstream political establishment of the UK confirms that they are OK with having an intelligence agency that scrapes all available internet traffic in order to steal trade secrets from continental European companies. As a continental European I must ask: Why is the UK so insistent that the EU is really about free trade when, at the same time, they are waging a covert trade war against us? [1] http://www.guardian.co.uk/uk/defence-and-security-blog/2013/jul/01/gchq-nsa-eu http://www.guardian.co.uk/uk/defence-and-security-blog/2013/...

tome 13y ago
Your outrage is valid, but your presumption of self-innocence I think probably not. I don't know which european country you are from, but most likely it tried or is trying to have a similar program.
- mercurial 13y ago
  France appears that we do have a similar program. I don't know if it trawls for trade secrets as well, but I wouldn't be surprised. Ugh. Also, Sweden.
- sentenza 13y ago
  I'm from Germany and I am of course not certain of German self-innocence. However, I would still be surprised if our intelligence agencies were involved in industrial espionage against companies in other EU countries. There are two reasons for this: If such a thing were to become public, the backlash would be enormous. The German political establishment, from the Bundestag down to village mayors, and also a large part (most likely the majority) of the population are quite invested in European unification. Having had bad experiences in the past, most people here would like to get on with their lives without having to worry about the dealings of nation-states. Such hostile acts against other EU countries would be presumed foolish and dangerous. The second and probably more important reason is that the German intelligence agencies are not completely under German control. This is something we carry around with us since the postwar occupation. Recently declassified secret contracts specify that the German intelligence agencies have to work in close collaboration (and sometimes on the orders of) the intelligence agencies of the Western Allies. I'd be surprised if the French would let our agencies engage in industrial espionage. EDIT: Btw, I am aware of the traffic scraping that the BND does, I just assume that industrial espionage, at this point in time , is not one of the many (probably mostly nefarious) things they do with that data.
  - tome 13y ago
    That makes sense. Thanks for the explanation.
cmdkeen 13y ago
Read up on some of the literature published a decade or so ago. Industrial espionage and economic espionage (more so) were the big things in the 1990s because we had all this intelligence apparatus left over from the Cold War with no idea what to do with it. The biggest risks to developed countries actually did seem to be economic (remember the power of the Deutsch mark back in the day). After 9/11 and the subsequent London bombings the security agencies found their new targets and funding sources, they didn't need to cast around to find justifications to still exist. Short of actual estimates of how much economic or industrial espionage is going on outwith military equipment or massive economic indicators (EU bailout discussions) I'd be amazed if much was being done. GCHQ, SIS and MI5 do not have unlimited budgets and massive staffs to throw at every problem.

tome 13y ago

Your outrage is valid, but your presumption of self-innocence I think probably not. I don't know which european country you are from, but most likely it tried or is trying to have a similar program.

mercurial 13y ago
France appears that we do have a similar program. I don't know if it trawls for trade secrets as well, but I wouldn't be surprised. Ugh. Also, Sweden.
sentenza 13y ago
I'm from Germany and I am of course not certain of German self-innocence. However, I would still be surprised if our intelligence agencies were involved in industrial espionage against companies in other EU countries. There are two reasons for this: If such a thing were to become public, the backlash would be enormous. The German political establishment, from the Bundestag down to village mayors, and also a large part (most likely the majority) of the population are quite invested in European unification. Having had bad experiences in the past, most people here would like to get on with their lives without having to worry about the dealings of nation-states. Such hostile acts against other EU countries would be presumed foolish and dangerous. The second and probably more important reason is that the German intelligence agencies are not completely under German control. This is something we carry around with us since the postwar occupation. Recently declassified secret contracts specify that the German intelligence agencies have to work in close collaboration (and sometimes on the orders of) the intelligence agencies of the Western Allies. I'd be surprised if the French would let our agencies engage in industrial espionage. EDIT: Btw, I am aware of the traffic scraping that the BND does, I just assume that industrial espionage, at this point in time , is not one of the many (probably mostly nefarious) things they do with that data.
- tome 13y ago
  That makes sense. Thanks for the explanation.

cmdkeen 13y ago

Read up on some of the literature published a decade or so ago. Industrial espionage and economic espionage (more so) were the big things in the 1990s because we had all this intelligence apparatus left over from the Cold War with no idea what to do with it. The biggest risks to developed countries actually did seem to be economic (remember the power of the Deutsch mark back in the day). After 9/11 and the subsequent London bombings the security agencies found their new targets and funding sources, they didn't need to cast around to find justifications to still exist. Short of actual estimates of how much economic or industrial espionage is going on outwith military equipment or massive economic indicators (EU bailout discussions) I'd be amazed if much was being done. GCHQ, SIS and MI5 do not have unlimited budgets and massive staffs to throw at every problem.