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Is this just an interesting tidbit about the history of a popular drink, or a subtle anecdote about how under socialism all animals are equal, some just more th

by roel_v 13y ago

Is this just an interesting tidbit about the history of a popular drink, or a subtle anecdote about how under socialism all animals are equal, some just more than others?

sdoering 13y ago
Or how bribes work every time, if you know, what the persons really wants. Or that it pays for big corp to rub with the ones in power. Or...
- roel_v 13y ago
  "Or that it pays for big corp to rub with the ones in power." Yeah, because producing 50 cases of a special brew for one general in a totalitarian state is a well-known strategy to get rich...
  - lifeisstillgood 13y ago
    Coca-cola could not care less if the General got the coke or not, if it made any money or not - what mattered was the US Army's support in creating a global manufacturing and distribution chain - and a ready made global consumer group in the form of GIs who would then glamourise the drink to the native populations
    - sdoering 13y ago
      > Coca-cola could not care less if the General got the coke or not[...] Well from the OP: "A practical consequence of White Coke was circumvention of the red tape imposed by the Soviet occupation authorities. While cargo shipments transiting the Soviet occupation zone in Austria normally took weeks to clear with the authorities, Coca-Cola supplies passing through the zone on their way back and forth between the Lambach plant and the Vienna warehouse were never stopped." Would not say, that it didn't make sense economically to produce these 50 cases...
- arethuza 13y ago
  Or perhaps it was a simple way of saying thanks from Eisenhower to Zhukov - given Zhukov's key role in defeating the Nazis it seems like a pretty trivial thing to me. Eisenhower clearly had a lot of respect for Zhukov - as did a lot of military leaders in the West.
hackerboos 13y ago
Don't make the mistake of many on Hacker News thinking that the Soviet Union was a socialist society.
- unimpressive 13y ago
  As someone who is genuinely interested. Can you point to any examples of a socialist society? If no, can you explain how such a society might come to exist?
  - rdl 13y ago
    Weren't the kibbutz in early Israel essentially socialist (or even possibly communist)? It doesn't seem hard to come up with functioning examples at a small scale (families, groups of families, etc.) with high group-cohesiveness and shared identity. It seems to break down at the nation-state scale, except perhaps during wartime or other emergency. It's interesting to think about whether socialism works in a society with extreme abundance ("post-scarcity"), at least for certain kinds of assets -- I could see cheaply-made material goods being essentially distributed in a socialist way while services performed by humans and "status" goods were highly capitalist.
    - jacoblyles 13y ago
      Families are socialist. So are some small native tribes. Large scale socialism by force tends to be a bit dystopian, though. They don't build walls to keep people out of socialist states.
    - mseebach 13y ago
      Socialism/capitalism primarily deals with the question of how to distribute scarce resources - which, by definition, is irrelevant in a post-scarcity society.
      - sageikosa 13y ago
        No, neither deals with scarce resources. Capitalism deals with investment and return on investment (via profit) as the directing agent of production. Socialism deals with distribution of "goods and services" according to some socially defined value system. The various socialisms may vary on how this value system is aimed or directed, but it is usually "republican" (for the people) in outer character so that popular support is maintained; even if it is benevolently dictatored for executive expediency.

by roel_v 13y ago

Is this just an interesting tidbit about the history of a popular drink, or a subtle anecdote about how under socialism all animals are equal, some just more than others?

sdoering 13y ago

Or how bribes work every time, if you know, what the persons really wants. Or that it pays for big corp to rub with the ones in power. Or...

roel_v 13y ago
"Or that it pays for big corp to rub with the ones in power." Yeah, because producing 50 cases of a special brew for one general in a totalitarian state is a well-known strategy to get rich...
- lifeisstillgood 13y ago
  Coca-cola could not care less if the General got the coke or not, if it made any money or not - what mattered was the US Army's support in creating a global manufacturing and distribution chain - and a ready made global consumer group in the form of GIs who would then glamourise the drink to the native populations
  - sdoering 13y ago
    > Coca-cola could not care less if the General got the coke or not[...] Well from the OP: "A practical consequence of White Coke was circumvention of the red tape imposed by the Soviet occupation authorities. While cargo shipments transiting the Soviet occupation zone in Austria normally took weeks to clear with the authorities, Coca-Cola supplies passing through the zone on their way back and forth between the Lambach plant and the Vienna warehouse were never stopped." Would not say, that it didn't make sense economically to produce these 50 cases...
arethuza 13y ago
Or perhaps it was a simple way of saying thanks from Eisenhower to Zhukov - given Zhukov's key role in defeating the Nazis it seems like a pretty trivial thing to me. Eisenhower clearly had a lot of respect for Zhukov - as did a lot of military leaders in the West.

hackerboos 13y ago

Don't make the mistake of many on Hacker News thinking that the Soviet Union was a socialist society.

unimpressive 13y ago
As someone who is genuinely interested. Can you point to any examples of a socialist society? If no, can you explain how such a society might come to exist?
- rdl 13y ago
  Weren't the kibbutz in early Israel essentially socialist (or even possibly communist)? It doesn't seem hard to come up with functioning examples at a small scale (families, groups of families, etc.) with high group-cohesiveness and shared identity. It seems to break down at the nation-state scale, except perhaps during wartime or other emergency. It's interesting to think about whether socialism works in a society with extreme abundance ("post-scarcity"), at least for certain kinds of assets -- I could see cheaply-made material goods being essentially distributed in a socialist way while services performed by humans and "status" goods were highly capitalist.
  - jacoblyles 13y ago
    Families are socialist. So are some small native tribes. Large scale socialism by force tends to be a bit dystopian, though. They don't build walls to keep people out of socialist states.
  - mseebach 13y ago
    Socialism/capitalism primarily deals with the question of how to distribute scarce resources - which, by definition, is irrelevant in a post-scarcity society.
    - sageikosa 13y ago
      No, neither deals with scarce resources. Capitalism deals with investment and return on investment (via profit) as the directing agent of production. Socialism deals with distribution of "goods and services" according to some socially defined value system. The various socialisms may vary on how this value system is aimed or directed, but it is usually "republican" (for the people) in outer character so that popular support is maintained; even if it is benevolently dictatored for executive expediency.