4 ms·

Norwegian ISP: dig your own fiber trench, save $400

51 points by tewks 17y ago

pasbesoin 17y ago
Unrelated except for the impression it forms in me: This story reminds me of encountering one of the chief officers of a small/midsize electric power company in Iowa, back in the 1980's. They were actively working with Amory Lovins, of the Rocky Mountain Institute, on energy conservation because they recognized that the resultant leveling of peak generation demands made them more profitable. They sold less power, but their margins improved enough to more than compensate. Everyone won. It's always impressive to find a company willing to think outside of the established "box", and to work with their customers. To my mind, it represents a generalized form of hacking. It's not just about technology, per se, it's about finding a better way -- and, when speaking of commerce, making a business out of it. Kudos.
- pchristensen 17y ago
  God bless Amory Lovins. Every time I hear about something new he has done, I wish the story had been heard instead by someone who wasn't already such a fan.
- nazgulnarsil 17y ago
  ideally companies that don't want to work with customers should wither and die. it's generally artificial barriers to entry that keep such crusty behemoths as the telcos entrenched.
Xichekolas 17y ago
I think the most impressive thing was how they lined up support _before_ deploying the network. That seems like a win for everyone involved, as they don't have to make huge speculative capital outlays... they already know they will have customers. Presumably the customers reap the cost savings in the form of lower bills.
- axod 17y ago
  BT did this with the ADSL rollout in the UK. They only upgraded exchanges where the demand from locals went over a threshold. It actually angered quite a few towns and villages that didn't have sufficient percentage interest to get their exchange upgraded to handle ADSL. They had to do their own local canvasing etc which I guess was a good way to get people to do marketing for free.
  - imajes 17y ago
    what's really interesting about this is how BT are going to be pushing through their ADSL2/fiber upgrade- they need to make it commercially viable so are going to be requiring some strict resale restrictions etc. :(
aaronblohowiak 17y ago
This will probably make a lot of Norwegians happy. While the construction and public works in Norway are top-notch, they are not known for their speed of execution ;) hopefully this will let the eager geeks be a little more impatient.
abstractbill 17y ago
The obvious downside is that passionate customers are more likely to complain whenever they see shortcomings in the product. That is not a downside. It's another upside.
m_eiman 17y ago
In Sweden we've used a similar system. The state has provided financial support for creating economic associations (not sure of the term there, but it's what my dictionary tells me) that build and own fibre networks. It's been very successful in the country side, where the people of e.g. a village formed the association and then built their own network. These networks are then connected for municipality's backbone, and it's done. Prices per month for Internet access in nets connected to my local backbone, symmetrical: 10Mbps for $24, 30Mbps for $34, 100/10Mbps asym for $35. There's also an additional $10 or so for access to the backbone. Each member of the association pays something like $5000 for their part of the network, but that's tax deductible to some extent.
- Xichekolas 17y ago
  In the US, we'd probably call these 'economic associations' co-operatives, or co-ops for short. There are several municipalities trying to do something like that here. The problem is that the local telephone and cable companies lobby state governments to pass laws making it illegal to do so. It's rather ridiculous.
  - sp332 17y ago
    Burlington Telecom is one of the more successful, from Vermont: http://www.burlingtontelecom.net/ http://www.burlingtontelecom.net/
  - anamax 17y ago
    The more common case is that the municipality creates a local monopoly and awards it to whoever greases the right palms.
russell 17y ago
It works in the US too. I lived in a neighborhood served by a small mutual water company (160 houses). When we needed to replace old 4 inch mains by new 6 inch mains, the neighbors did all the in-the-trenches manual labor.
alex_c 17y ago
I know very little about telecom infrastructure, so this might have a really obvious answer - but why does the last stretch HAVE to to be underground? In other words, why isn't a "skip the trench, save $400" model feasible?
- imajes 17y ago
  I would suggest that: - fiber is relatively more expensive than simple copper strands; - hanging a cable from a telephone pole to the house is not resilient to weather; - fiber can snap easily, and needs to be wrapped in thick protection: see point 2 - most of it comes underground now so it'd be a waste to break out into the air and: wifi from cabinets in the street would be weird. :)
  - Xichekolas 17y ago
    But is there any reason I couldn't run it in plastic tubing along the bottom of my fence for instance? Only thing I can think of is below freezing temps, which you wouldn't get when below the frost line.
- wmf 17y ago
  AFAIK fiber follows the other utilities whether they are aerial or underground.

51 points by tewks 17y ago

Unrelated except for the impression it forms in me: This story reminds me of encountering one of the chief officers of a small/midsize electric power company in Iowa, back in the 1980's. They were actively working with Amory Lovins, of the Rocky Mountain Institute, on energy conservation because they recognized that the resultant leveling of peak generation demands made them more profitable. They sold less power, but their margins improved enough to more than compensate. Everyone won. It's always impressive to find a company willing to think outside of the established "box", and to work with their customers. To my mind, it represents a generalized form of hacking. It's not just about technology, per se, it's about finding a better way -- and, when speaking of commerce, making a business out of it. Kudos.

pchristensen 17y ago
God bless Amory Lovins. Every time I hear about something new he has done, I wish the story had been heard instead by someone who wasn't already such a fan.
nazgulnarsil 17y ago
ideally companies that don't want to work with customers should wither and die. it's generally artificial barriers to entry that keep such crusty behemoths as the telcos entrenched.

Xichekolas 17y ago

I think the most impressive thing was how they lined up support _before_ deploying the network. That seems like a win for everyone involved, as they don't have to make huge speculative capital outlays... they already know they will have customers. Presumably the customers reap the cost savings in the form of lower bills.

axod 17y ago
BT did this with the ADSL rollout in the UK. They only upgraded exchanges where the demand from locals went over a threshold. It actually angered quite a few towns and villages that didn't have sufficient percentage interest to get their exchange upgraded to handle ADSL. They had to do their own local canvasing etc which I guess was a good way to get people to do marketing for free.
- imajes 17y ago
  what's really interesting about this is how BT are going to be pushing through their ADSL2/fiber upgrade- they need to make it commercially viable so are going to be requiring some strict resale restrictions etc. :(

aaronblohowiak 17y ago

This will probably make a lot of Norwegians happy. While the construction and public works in Norway are top-notch, they are not known for their speed of execution ;) hopefully this will let the eager geeks be a little more impatient.

abstractbill 17y ago

The obvious downside is that passionate customers are more likely to complain whenever they see shortcomings in the product. That is not a downside. It's another upside.

m_eiman 17y ago

In Sweden we've used a similar system. The state has provided financial support for creating economic associations (not sure of the term there, but it's what my dictionary tells me) that build and own fibre networks. It's been very successful in the country side, where the people of e.g. a village formed the association and then built their own network. These networks are then connected for municipality's backbone, and it's done. Prices per month for Internet access in nets connected to my local backbone, symmetrical: 10Mbps for $24, 30Mbps for $34, 100/10Mbps asym for $35. There's also an additional $10 or so for access to the backbone. Each member of the association pays something like $5000 for their part of the network, but that's tax deductible to some extent.

Xichekolas 17y ago
In the US, we'd probably call these 'economic associations' co-operatives, or co-ops for short. There are several municipalities trying to do something like that here. The problem is that the local telephone and cable companies lobby state governments to pass laws making it illegal to do so. It's rather ridiculous.
- sp332 17y ago
  Burlington Telecom is one of the more successful, from Vermont: http://www.burlingtontelecom.net/ http://www.burlingtontelecom.net/
- anamax 17y ago
  The more common case is that the municipality creates a local monopoly and awards it to whoever greases the right palms.

russell 17y ago

It works in the US too. I lived in a neighborhood served by a small mutual water company (160 houses). When we needed to replace old 4 inch mains by new 6 inch mains, the neighbors did all the in-the-trenches manual labor.

alex_c 17y ago

I know very little about telecom infrastructure, so this might have a really obvious answer - but why does the last stretch HAVE to to be underground? In other words, why isn't a "skip the trench, save $400" model feasible?

imajes 17y ago
I would suggest that: - fiber is relatively more expensive than simple copper strands; - hanging a cable from a telephone pole to the house is not resilient to weather; - fiber can snap easily, and needs to be wrapped in thick protection: see point 2 - most of it comes underground now so it'd be a waste to break out into the air and: wifi from cabinets in the street would be weird. :)
- Xichekolas 17y ago
  But is there any reason I couldn't run it in plastic tubing along the bottom of my fence for instance? Only thing I can think of is below freezing temps, which you wouldn't get when below the frost line.
wmf 17y ago
AFAIK fiber follows the other utilities whether they are aerial or underground.