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Marijuana. Seriously? WSJ desperately trying to suggest multiple causes to sidestep blaming the obesity epidemic. Reading between the lines that sounds a lot

by 3am 13y ago

Marijuana. Seriously? WSJ desperately trying to suggest multiple causes to sidestep blaming the obesity epidemic. Reading between the lines that sounds a lot more correlated with the trend than what I would assume is pretty consistent pot usage over the last, say, 50 years. EDIT: remember, the idea isn't to figure out what causes reduced male fertility, it's to see which of those causes correlates best with the observation. EDIT 2: of course by the same logic, sugar intake is what's causing the obesity epidemic (the fatty foods comment in the article is unimpressive) EDIT 3: DanBC, excellent point about THC concentration. I didn't think of it. I can't find any data about consumption, nor am I committed enough to the subject to dig for it :)

DanBC 13y ago
(I'm strongly in favour of legalising drugs.) There are a few studies showing links between cannabis use and infertility in men. Smoking cannabis is a double whammy, because tobacco use is a leading cause of erectile dysfunction. > what I would assume is pretty consistent pot usage over the last, say, 50 years. That's a big assumption. I'd be interested to see any numbers to support it. Certainly in the UK it feels like people smoke more, smoke more often, and start earlier. But I don't have any numbers, this is just my opinion. I'd also be interested to see if modern cannabis actually is stronger than cannabis used in the 60s, 70s, 80s, etc.
- carbocation 13y ago
  >I'd also be interested to see if modern cannabis actually is stronger than cannabis used in the 60s, 70s, 80s, etc. http://medicalmarijuana.procon.org/sourcefiles/UMPMC-quarterly-monitoring-report.pdf http://medicalmarijuana.procon.org/sourcefiles/UMPMC-quarter... Check out Table 2. (Seized) marijuana from the late 2000s has 10x as much THC as that from the mid-1970s.
- jlgreco 13y ago
  I suspect that most of the reason it seems that everybody is smoking is that the stigma (and concrete consequences) of being known to smoke are dropping so more people are willing to admit to it. It's legal for me to smoke, but I don't. Ten years ago it wasn't, but I could have if I were inclined. I don't think that legalization efforts or the like are really increasing the number of people who smoke, either you want to and did regardless, or you don't anyway. Maybe there was a temporary drop in the number of smokers before the kids that grew up on D.A.R.E. learned how to use the internet (and subsequently learned that no, pot won't kill you with just one hit...), but otherwise I would hesitate a guess that we are still around 1960's level consumption.
- hkolek 13y ago
  what a crock of shit. THC levels are not rising. http://science.howstuffworks.com/marijuana5.htm http://science.howstuffworks.com/marijuana5.htm http://www.420magazine.com/forums/cannabis-facts-information/33637-marijuana-myths.html http://www.420magazine.com/forums/cannabis-facts-information... also watch http://www.imdb.com/title/tt1039647/ http://www.imdb.com/title/tt1039647/ > Smoking cannabis is a double whammy, because tobacco What? You can smoke cannabis without tobacco.
  - DanBC 13y ago
    > what a crock of shit. calm down, it's a common suggestion that THC levels are rising and rather than just repeating it I asked if it is, in fact true. A simple "no" is better. Your first link does not support your point as strongly as you seem to think. Your second link is obviously a joke - no one would present such an obviously biased source with so many cherry picked reports seriously.
- philwelch 13y ago
  > Smoking cannabis is a double whammy, because tobacco use is a leading cause of erectile dysfunction. Wait, what? I don't follow you. That's like saying frying bacon is a double whammy, because frying eggs is a leading cause of stuff getting stuck to your frying pan.
fein 13y ago
"Young men's marijuana use is linked to decreased sperm count, but not alcohol or cigarettes." Wow that's actually kinda nuts. I have no idea why on earth they would even bring alcohol and cigs into the mix. This is on the edge of saying smoking and drinking is absolutely OK. I guess booze has a pretty high chance of giving you kids you never knew about...
crazygringo 13y ago
Also, fatty foods, seriously? I could understand correlation with obesity, but correlation with "high-fat diets" just seems misleading and irresponsible. I mean, presumably most of whatever correlation there is is coming from their level of obesity. They want me to believe that something like the paleo diet, of all things, is supposed to reduce sperm count in people of healthy weight?
- fein 13y ago
  Eh, its probably more of the same "everything gives you cancer" nonsense, only now its sperm count. 3 weeks later and we find out the study was somehow horribly flawed.
- DanBC 13y ago
  It's interesting seeing people form and then support their cognitive biases.
  - CamperBob2 13y ago
    And downright scary when scientists do.
darkarmani 13y ago
More likely to be the availability of porn than anything.
- hrktb 13y ago
  Actualy it should help you keep fresh and healthy sperm[1] [http://ivf.net/ivf/daily-sex-helps-to-reduce-sperm-dna-damage-and-improve-fertility-o4272.html http://ivf.net/ivf/daily-sex-helps-to-reduce-sperm-dna-damag...]
  - Ygg2 13y ago
    True, but also if you overdo it you reduce total number of sperm.
epsylon 13y ago
I'm surprised that the article doesn't mention environmental causes. It's been known for a while that almost all water involved in human activities is polluted and contain residues of pharmaceutical drugs, pesticides and other things. It's been shown that they mess with fish sexual functions, and they are strongly suspected as a cause for the decline of human male fertility. http://www.wisconsinwatch.org/2013/05/22/study-chemical-blend-lowers-fish-testosterone/ http://www.wisconsinwatch.org/2013/05/22/study-chemical-blen... http://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2009/01/090118200636.htm http://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2009/01/090118200636.ht...

by 3am 13y ago

DanBC 13y ago

(I'm strongly in favour of legalising drugs.) There are a few studies showing links between cannabis use and infertility in men. Smoking cannabis is a double whammy, because tobacco use is a leading cause of erectile dysfunction. > what I would assume is pretty consistent pot usage over the last, say, 50 years. That's a big assumption. I'd be interested to see any numbers to support it. Certainly in the UK it feels like people smoke more, smoke more often, and start earlier. But I don't have any numbers, this is just my opinion. I'd also be interested to see if modern cannabis actually is stronger than cannabis used in the 60s, 70s, 80s, etc.

carbocation 13y ago
>I'd also be interested to see if modern cannabis actually is stronger than cannabis used in the 60s, 70s, 80s, etc. http://medicalmarijuana.procon.org/sourcefiles/UMPMC-quarterly-monitoring-report.pdf http://medicalmarijuana.procon.org/sourcefiles/UMPMC-quarter... Check out Table 2. (Seized) marijuana from the late 2000s has 10x as much THC as that from the mid-1970s.
jlgreco 13y ago
I suspect that most of the reason it seems that everybody is smoking is that the stigma (and concrete consequences) of being known to smoke are dropping so more people are willing to admit to it. It's legal for me to smoke, but I don't. Ten years ago it wasn't, but I could have if I were inclined. I don't think that legalization efforts or the like are really increasing the number of people who smoke, either you want to and did regardless, or you don't anyway. Maybe there was a temporary drop in the number of smokers before the kids that grew up on D.A.R.E. learned how to use the internet (and subsequently learned that no, pot won't kill you with just one hit...), but otherwise I would hesitate a guess that we are still around 1960's level consumption.
hkolek 13y ago
what a crock of shit. THC levels are not rising. http://science.howstuffworks.com/marijuana5.htm http://science.howstuffworks.com/marijuana5.htm http://www.420magazine.com/forums/cannabis-facts-information/33637-marijuana-myths.html http://www.420magazine.com/forums/cannabis-facts-information... also watch http://www.imdb.com/title/tt1039647/ http://www.imdb.com/title/tt1039647/ > Smoking cannabis is a double whammy, because tobacco What? You can smoke cannabis without tobacco.
- DanBC 13y ago
  > what a crock of shit. calm down, it's a common suggestion that THC levels are rising and rather than just repeating it I asked if it is, in fact true. A simple "no" is better. Your first link does not support your point as strongly as you seem to think. Your second link is obviously a joke - no one would present such an obviously biased source with so many cherry picked reports seriously.
philwelch 13y ago
> Smoking cannabis is a double whammy, because tobacco use is a leading cause of erectile dysfunction. Wait, what? I don't follow you. That's like saying frying bacon is a double whammy, because frying eggs is a leading cause of stuff getting stuck to your frying pan.

fein 13y ago

"Young men's marijuana use is linked to decreased sperm count, but not alcohol or cigarettes." Wow that's actually kinda nuts. I have no idea why on earth they would even bring alcohol and cigs into the mix. This is on the edge of saying smoking and drinking is absolutely OK. I guess booze has a pretty high chance of giving you kids you never knew about...

crazygringo 13y ago

Also, fatty foods, seriously? I could understand correlation with obesity, but correlation with "high-fat diets" just seems misleading and irresponsible. I mean, presumably most of whatever correlation there is is coming from their level of obesity. They want me to believe that something like the paleo diet, of all things, is supposed to reduce sperm count in people of healthy weight?

fein 13y ago
Eh, its probably more of the same "everything gives you cancer" nonsense, only now its sperm count. 3 weeks later and we find out the study was somehow horribly flawed.
DanBC 13y ago
It's interesting seeing people form and then support their cognitive biases.
- CamperBob2 13y ago
  And downright scary when scientists do.

darkarmani 13y ago

More likely to be the availability of porn than anything.

hrktb 13y ago
Actualy it should help you keep fresh and healthy sperm[1] [http://ivf.net/ivf/daily-sex-helps-to-reduce-sperm-dna-damage-and-improve-fertility-o4272.html http://ivf.net/ivf/daily-sex-helps-to-reduce-sperm-dna-damag...]
- Ygg2 13y ago
  True, but also if you overdo it you reduce total number of sperm.

epsylon 13y ago

I'm surprised that the article doesn't mention environmental causes. It's been known for a while that almost all water involved in human activities is polluted and contain residues of pharmaceutical drugs, pesticides and other things. It's been shown that they mess with fish sexual functions, and they are strongly suspected as a cause for the decline of human male fertility. http://www.wisconsinwatch.org/2013/05/22/study-chemical-blend-lowers-fish-testosterone/ http://www.wisconsinwatch.org/2013/05/22/study-chemical-blen... http://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2009/01/090118200636.htm http://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2009/01/090118200636.ht...