4 ms·

Is it just me or does anyone finds this odd: >> When we are legally obligated to comply with demands, we pull the specified content from our servers where it s

Is it just me or does anyone finds this odd: >> When we are legally obligated to comply with demands, we pull the specified content from our servers where it sits in an unencrypted state... Why would the public's private data sit in unencrypted state on Microsoft's servers? What would be the point of encryption if corporation servers can see what you think you are securing via assumed privacy?

deleted 13y ago
[deleted]
mehrzad 13y ago
If it's encrypted, it's harder to sync across devices is what I assume, but I'm not sure. Lavabit seems to be doing fine.
yread 13y ago
It's quite hard to do stuff like full-text search on encrypted data
- Spearchucker 13y ago
  Erm, no. It's actually quite easy, if you're prepared to do a little more work. You just create a search index before encrypting the data. Then you encrypt the index. Each time you need to search, you decrypt the index, get a reference to one or more results, fetch those, and decrypt them. That's trivialising what can become a pretty complex scenario, but it illustrates the point.
  - yread 13y ago
    Actually, I did an email archiver as a side project, I still have the Lucene index of my emails (including searchable attachments, of course). It's 233MB. How long do you think it would take to decrypt it with AES256 everytime I search for something? How long it takes when you search in Gmail? Can you point me to any implementation that does it like that? Or any implementation that does it at all? I wasn't saying it's impossible, just that it's pretty hard.
    - Spearchucker 13y ago
      I don't know of anything open source. Initialising the AES crypto provider takes a lot longer than decrypting ~250 Mb data, so keep it initialized for the duration of the session. That said, I did it in a native client app, where state is easier to maintain.
- jnbiche 13y ago
  Yes, although there's a cutting-edge form of encryption called homomorphic encryption that would allow full-text search on encrypted data if an implementation is ever perfected. IBM is working on it, among many others: http://nakedsecurity.sophos.com/2013/05/05/ibm-takes-big-new-step-in-cryptography/ http://nakedsecurity.sophos.com/2013/05/05/ibm-takes-big-new...
- deleted 13y ago
  [deleted]
declan 13y ago
How many consumer-focused Internet companies encrypt user data in storage by default -- in a way that the company itself cannot decrypt given a lawful court order? (I'm not talking here about transit HTTPS/TLS encryption.) I don't know of a whole lot.
cnewcomer 13y ago
Perhaps what he meant was decryptable state? >What would be the point of encryption if corporation servers can see what you think you are securing via assumed privacy? Assumed privacy is a myth at best. Corporation servers and people can see everything. For example: From http://gawker.com/5637234/gcreep-google-engineer-stalked-teens-spied-on-chats http://gawker.com/5637234/gcreep-google-engineer-stalked-tee... In at least four cases, Barksdale spied on minors' Google accounts without their consent, according to a source close to the incidents. In an incident this spring involving a 15-year-old boy who he'd befriended, Barksdale tapped into call logs from Google Voice, Google's Internet phone service, after the boy refused to tell him the name of his new girlfriend, according to our source. After accessing the kid's account to retrieve her name and phone number, Barksdale then taunted the boy and threatened to call her. In other cases involving teens of both sexes, Barksdale exhibited a similar pattern of aggressively violating others' privacy, according to our source. He accessed contact lists and chat transcripts, and in one case quoted from an IM that he'd looked up behind the person's back. (He later apologized to one for retrieving the information without her knowledge.) In another incident, Barksdale unblocked himself from a Gtalk buddy list even though the teen in question had taken steps to cut communications with the Google engineer.
- deleted 13y ago
  [deleted]
- deleted 13y ago
  [deleted]
amirmc 13y ago
I'm not being snarky but what gave you the impression it sat there encrypted? (caveat: I'm not a security expert) Encryption is used for data 'in flight' as well as 'at rest'. As far as I know, very few companies/services go out of their way to encrypt your stuff at rest (it's within their systems/firewall/etc at that point). Even if they did, they hold the encryption keys so can 'see' it anyway. If you want a situation where a company cannot see your data, you have to hold the encryption keys yourself (nb: knowing the password != holding the encryption key. My rule of thumb for this is if I can do a password reset on a service, then that service can see everything I put into it.)

deleted 13y ago

[deleted]

mehrzad 13y ago

If it's encrypted, it's harder to sync across devices is what I assume, but I'm not sure. Lavabit seems to be doing fine.

yread 13y ago

It's quite hard to do stuff like full-text search on encrypted data

Spearchucker 13y ago
Erm, no. It's actually quite easy, if you're prepared to do a little more work. You just create a search index before encrypting the data. Then you encrypt the index. Each time you need to search, you decrypt the index, get a reference to one or more results, fetch those, and decrypt them. That's trivialising what can become a pretty complex scenario, but it illustrates the point.
- yread 13y ago
  Actually, I did an email archiver as a side project, I still have the Lucene index of my emails (including searchable attachments, of course). It's 233MB. How long do you think it would take to decrypt it with AES256 everytime I search for something? How long it takes when you search in Gmail? Can you point me to any implementation that does it like that? Or any implementation that does it at all? I wasn't saying it's impossible, just that it's pretty hard.
  - Spearchucker 13y ago
    I don't know of anything open source. Initialising the AES crypto provider takes a lot longer than decrypting ~250 Mb data, so keep it initialized for the duration of the session. That said, I did it in a native client app, where state is easier to maintain.
jnbiche 13y ago
Yes, although there's a cutting-edge form of encryption called homomorphic encryption that would allow full-text search on encrypted data if an implementation is ever perfected. IBM is working on it, among many others: http://nakedsecurity.sophos.com/2013/05/05/ibm-takes-big-new-step-in-cryptography/ http://nakedsecurity.sophos.com/2013/05/05/ibm-takes-big-new...
deleted 13y ago
[deleted]

declan 13y ago

How many consumer-focused Internet companies encrypt user data in storage by default -- in a way that the company itself cannot decrypt given a lawful court order? (I'm not talking here about transit HTTPS/TLS encryption.) I don't know of a whole lot.

cnewcomer 13y ago

Perhaps what he meant was decryptable state? >What would be the point of encryption if corporation servers can see what you think you are securing via assumed privacy? Assumed privacy is a myth at best. Corporation servers and people can see everything. For example: From http://gawker.com/5637234/gcreep-google-engineer-stalked-teens-spied-on-chats http://gawker.com/5637234/gcreep-google-engineer-stalked-tee... In at least four cases, Barksdale spied on minors' Google accounts without their consent, according to a source close to the incidents. In an incident this spring involving a 15-year-old boy who he'd befriended, Barksdale tapped into call logs from Google Voice, Google's Internet phone service, after the boy refused to tell him the name of his new girlfriend, according to our source. After accessing the kid's account to retrieve her name and phone number, Barksdale then taunted the boy and threatened to call her. In other cases involving teens of both sexes, Barksdale exhibited a similar pattern of aggressively violating others' privacy, according to our source. He accessed contact lists and chat transcripts, and in one case quoted from an IM that he'd looked up behind the person's back. (He later apologized to one for retrieving the information without her knowledge.) In another incident, Barksdale unblocked himself from a Gtalk buddy list even though the teen in question had taken steps to cut communications with the Google engineer.

deleted 13y ago
[deleted]
deleted 13y ago
[deleted]

amirmc 13y ago

I'm not being snarky but what gave you the impression it sat there encrypted? (caveat: I'm not a security expert) Encryption is used for data 'in flight' as well as 'at rest'. As far as I know, very few companies/services go out of their way to encrypt your stuff at rest (it's within their systems/firewall/etc at that point). Even if they did, they hold the encryption keys so can 'see' it anyway. If you want a situation where a company cannot see your data, you have to hold the encryption keys yourself (nb: knowing the password != holding the encryption key. My rule of thumb for this is if I can do a password reset on a service, then that service can see everything I put into it.)