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The use of words such as violence and abuse is disturbing. We are talking about a guy thats swearing - not a rapist. Sorry, but swearing isn't very uncommon in

The use of words such as violence and abuse is disturbing. We are talking about a guy thats swearing - not a rapist. Sorry, but swearing isn't very uncommon in Scandinavia. I didn't sign an agreement to act according to some US code of conduct - I assume Linus is feeling the same way. Although I certainly wouldn't do what he does, I respect him standing up against the American CoC mafia. I heard Steve Jobs was very rude to his employees, if they did a poor job as well - I guess all of this happened inside the Apple HQ as well - its just easier to be angry with someone who is not your boss (oh, and if everything happens on a mailing list).

wavefunction 13y ago
We drop motherfucker and other "curse" words in my US office all day long here. Mostly due to some bullshit coming down the fucking pike from some dumbass account manager who doesn't know their ass from a hole in the ground.
- tptacek 13y ago
  We're users and admirers of profanity here as well. My admiration of profane language runs so deep that it is a parenting problem; my kids swear, we don't punish it, and they risk trouble at school. Which, fine. Sarah Sharp isn't criticizing Torvalds merely for using profanity. That's not her argument at all. Also, consider the different impact the same words have when you're using them in person and the target of those words can assess body language. Consider also whether every person in your office is someone you'd feel equally comfortable using that language with.
- zalew 13y ago
  Loosely related anegdote: Not so long ago I heard of a study here in Poland (we curse like sailors) about which parts of society swear the most. The first group were the uneducated, bottom class workers, etc., just because they just don't know better how to express themselves. Obvious, right? At this point you think it will decrease linearally, but as it turns out, the second most cursing group were the well educated, people in position, all sorts of groups you would 'expect better', yet they are confident enough about their intelligence and vocabulary they don't feel the need to apply artificial boundaries around their means of expression. The ones who curse the least are the ones in between - because they are the ones who care enough to pretend and want to separate themselves from the lower classes - a matter of being paranoid about their social perception supposedly originating from insecurity. It's beyond me why people expect Linus to beat around the bushes like he were on an audition with the queen when he's not in a position to care enough to bend over third party social standards.
tptacek 13y ago
Nobody called Torvalds a rapist. Engage with her argument or don't, but don't caricature it.
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- jerf 13y ago
  However, "Linus Torvalds is advocating for physical intimidation and violence." is something I just copied and pasted. I don't think it's that out of line to observe that this is an attempt to win the argument by defining Linus' behavior as intrinsically beyond the pale without having to engage it directly. It's not like that's a particular uncommon rhetorical tactic....
- __--__ 13y ago
  Nobody called Torvalds a rapist. Neither does he. He's not creating a caricature, he's engaging the part of the argument that uses the same language on Linus that we normally reserve for wife beaters, child molesters and rapists. "Violence" and "abuse". It's not out of line to draw the parallel and question whether the language is appropriate for the situation, especially since the topic to begin with is language and it's appropriateness.

wavefunction 13y ago

We drop motherfucker and other "curse" words in my US office all day long here. Mostly due to some bullshit coming down the fucking pike from some dumbass account manager who doesn't know their ass from a hole in the ground.

tptacek 13y ago
We're users and admirers of profanity here as well. My admiration of profane language runs so deep that it is a parenting problem; my kids swear, we don't punish it, and they risk trouble at school. Which, fine. Sarah Sharp isn't criticizing Torvalds merely for using profanity. That's not her argument at all. Also, consider the different impact the same words have when you're using them in person and the target of those words can assess body language. Consider also whether every person in your office is someone you'd feel equally comfortable using that language with.
zalew 13y ago
Loosely related anegdote: Not so long ago I heard of a study here in Poland (we curse like sailors) about which parts of society swear the most. The first group were the uneducated, bottom class workers, etc., just because they just don't know better how to express themselves. Obvious, right? At this point you think it will decrease linearally, but as it turns out, the second most cursing group were the well educated, people in position, all sorts of groups you would 'expect better', yet they are confident enough about their intelligence and vocabulary they don't feel the need to apply artificial boundaries around their means of expression. The ones who curse the least are the ones in between - because they are the ones who care enough to pretend and want to separate themselves from the lower classes - a matter of being paranoid about their social perception supposedly originating from insecurity. It's beyond me why people expect Linus to beat around the bushes like he were on an audition with the queen when he's not in a position to care enough to bend over third party social standards.

tptacek 13y ago

Nobody called Torvalds a rapist. Engage with her argument or don't, but don't caricature it.

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jerf 13y ago
However, "Linus Torvalds is advocating for physical intimidation and violence." is something I just copied and pasted. I don't think it's that out of line to observe that this is an attempt to win the argument by defining Linus' behavior as intrinsically beyond the pale without having to engage it directly. It's not like that's a particular uncommon rhetorical tactic....
__--__ 13y ago
Nobody called Torvalds a rapist. Neither does he. He's not creating a caricature, he's engaging the part of the argument that uses the same language on Linus that we normally reserve for wife beaters, child molesters and rapists. "Violence" and "abuse". It's not out of line to draw the parallel and question whether the language is appropriate for the situation, especially since the topic to begin with is language and it's appropriateness.