6 ms·

It's clear that Linus, having spent his career working from home in his bathrobe, has absolutely no clue what professionalism means. It's less about the necktie

It's clear that Linus, having spent his career working from home in his bathrobe, has absolutely no clue what professionalism means. It's less about the neckties and watercooler politics he imagines and more about treating your peers with basic respect and human dignity. He appears to have the social skills of someone recently released from maximum security prison. He's like a homeschooled kid who bites the other children at birthday parties.

sp332 13y ago
He has a lot of experience doing what works for his particular project. His style works for his most active contributors and lieutenants. I don't think you can say he has under-developed social skills, but they are probably "over-fitted" to a specific social structure.
- deleted 13y ago
  [deleted]
  - thezilch 13y ago
    And? What makes something right? Or that there is only one right approach? That's Linus's point; having everyone agree and hug it out is a waste of his time. You don't have to report directly to him to make things happen.
    - twerquie 13y ago
      (I deleted my comment above before I saw your reply) Society has norms for determining right and wrong social behaviour. We teach children not to behave this way at a very early age. I'm sure these societal values aren't completely consistent across cultures and ages, but I'd be surprised if most people you ask don't characterize his language as hostile and abusive. Of course, everyone has a right to be an asshole.
- Joeri 13y ago
  But does his project work despite his abrasive style or because of it? We have to avoid confusing correlation and causation.
  - sp332 13y ago
    He addresses this in the quote in the article. When he acts less abrasive, people take him less seriously.
    - MartinCron 13y ago
      Which is exactly the thing a person would say to rationalize abrasive behavior. Honestly, at this point, Linus has so much credibility he could communicate exclusively in Esperanto and people would still take him seriously.
bjornsteffanson 13y ago
As a Swede, it seems to me he's just acting Swedish.
- sp332 13y ago
  Sorry to break it to you, but he was born in Helsinki. Edit: OK I guess this is more complicated than I thought :)
  - jlgreco 13y ago
    True, though Linus was a part of the Swedish speaking minority in Finland.
  - bjornsteffanson 13y ago
    Geographically, sure. Culturally - not at all.
    - Ras_ 13y ago
      Yes, I believe another Finnish Swede active in this scene is somewhat more culturally Swedish - Monty Widenius, founder of MySQL/MariaDB. On the other hand Linus' father is a Member of the European Parliament for Swedish People's Party of Finland, and was until 2011 the party vice chairman. But he (Nils) has been quite relaxed about things like mandatory Swedish education, which most Finnish Swedes dearly cling on to.
- commandar 13y ago
  This is something I've heard repeatedly about Linus; that his communication style is really pretty typical for a Scandinavian.
  - jlgreco 13y ago
    Same. A (Finnish speaking) Finn I know likes to brag to me about this.
- claudius 13y ago
CleanedStar 13y ago
> what professionalism means. It's less about the neckties and watercooler politics he imagines and more about treating your peers with basic respect and human dignity What planet did you just descend from? And what are these "peers" that exist in our profession? In my profession I have a team lead who doles out work, with a manager over him, with a manager over him and so on. The basic structure is no different than that of a dictatorship. What's this "basic respect and human dignity" you find in your corporation which you can't find on lkml? Steve Ballmer throwing a chair across the room when a developer says he's leaving because he is going to "fucking kill Google?" Who are we to look to for these examples of professionalism and basic respect and human dignity - Steve Jobs? Larry Ellison? Who is the one with the vivid imagination? I hope you never have to keep the network and desktops of a Wall Street trading floor running. Back in 1999, when VC was handed out like candy and blockbuster IPOs happened every day and companies were desperate to hire even middling IT workers, I suppose a veneer of theoretical collegiality seemed to hang over dot-com's for a moment. When 2000 and 2001 rolled around, and a lord of the flies atmosphere appeared at these same startups, it was a different story.
- twerquie 13y ago
  > And what are these "peers" that exist in our profession? Your peers are people you work with to achieve a common goal. > I have a team lead who doles out work, with a manager over him, with a manager over him and so on. The basic structure is no different than that of a dictatorship. The basic structure is also no different from a democracy. Or a large open-source project. > What's this "basic respect and human dignity" you find in your corporation which you can't find on lkml? I hope this doesn't come as a surprise to you, but you're not supposed to rage out and flame your peers. It shows a lack of self control. Those examples you gave of CEOs losing control are notorious for a reason. > I hope you never have to keep the network and desktops of a Wall Street trading floor running. Do those still exist? (serious question) > What planet did you just descend from? Regards,

sp332 13y ago

He has a lot of experience doing what works for his particular project. His style works for his most active contributors and lieutenants. I don't think you can say he has under-developed social skills, but they are probably "over-fitted" to a specific social structure.

deleted 13y ago
[deleted]
- thezilch 13y ago
  And? What makes something right? Or that there is only one right approach? That's Linus's point; having everyone agree and hug it out is a waste of his time. You don't have to report directly to him to make things happen.
  - twerquie 13y ago
    (I deleted my comment above before I saw your reply) Society has norms for determining right and wrong social behaviour. We teach children not to behave this way at a very early age. I'm sure these societal values aren't completely consistent across cultures and ages, but I'd be surprised if most people you ask don't characterize his language as hostile and abusive. Of course, everyone has a right to be an asshole.
Joeri 13y ago
But does his project work despite his abrasive style or because of it? We have to avoid confusing correlation and causation.
- sp332 13y ago
  He addresses this in the quote in the article. When he acts less abrasive, people take him less seriously.
  - MartinCron 13y ago
    Which is exactly the thing a person would say to rationalize abrasive behavior. Honestly, at this point, Linus has so much credibility he could communicate exclusively in Esperanto and people would still take him seriously.

bjornsteffanson 13y ago

As a Swede, it seems to me he's just acting Swedish.

sp332 13y ago
Sorry to break it to you, but he was born in Helsinki. Edit: OK I guess this is more complicated than I thought :)
- jlgreco 13y ago
  True, though Linus was a part of the Swedish speaking minority in Finland.
- bjornsteffanson 13y ago
  Geographically, sure. Culturally - not at all.
  - Ras_ 13y ago
    Yes, I believe another Finnish Swede active in this scene is somewhat more culturally Swedish - Monty Widenius, founder of MySQL/MariaDB. On the other hand Linus' father is a Member of the European Parliament for Swedish People's Party of Finland, and was until 2011 the party vice chairman. But he (Nils) has been quite relaxed about things like mandatory Swedish education, which most Finnish Swedes dearly cling on to.
commandar 13y ago
This is something I've heard repeatedly about Linus; that his communication style is really pretty typical for a Scandinavian.
- jlgreco 13y ago
  Same. A (Finnish speaking) Finn I know likes to brag to me about this.
claudius 13y ago

CleanedStar 13y ago

> what professionalism means. It's less about the neckties and watercooler politics he imagines and more about treating your peers with basic respect and human dignity What planet did you just descend from? And what are these "peers" that exist in our profession? In my profession I have a team lead who doles out work, with a manager over him, with a manager over him and so on. The basic structure is no different than that of a dictatorship. What's this "basic respect and human dignity" you find in your corporation which you can't find on lkml? Steve Ballmer throwing a chair across the room when a developer says he's leaving because he is going to "fucking kill Google?" Who are we to look to for these examples of professionalism and basic respect and human dignity - Steve Jobs? Larry Ellison? Who is the one with the vivid imagination? I hope you never have to keep the network and desktops of a Wall Street trading floor running. Back in 1999, when VC was handed out like candy and blockbuster IPOs happened every day and companies were desperate to hire even middling IT workers, I suppose a veneer of theoretical collegiality seemed to hang over dot-com's for a moment. When 2000 and 2001 rolled around, and a lord of the flies atmosphere appeared at these same startups, it was a different story.

twerquie 13y ago
> And what are these "peers" that exist in our profession? Your peers are people you work with to achieve a common goal. > I have a team lead who doles out work, with a manager over him, with a manager over him and so on. The basic structure is no different than that of a dictatorship. The basic structure is also no different from a democracy. Or a large open-source project. > What's this "basic respect and human dignity" you find in your corporation which you can't find on lkml? I hope this doesn't come as a surprise to you, but you're not supposed to rage out and flame your peers. It shows a lack of self control. Those examples you gave of CEOs losing control are notorious for a reason. > I hope you never have to keep the network and desktops of a Wall Street trading floor running. Do those still exist? (serious question) > What planet did you just descend from? Regards,