4 ms·
It took a while for me to get the fine submitted article here to load. Submitting to HN must have slashdotted the author's site. Meanwhile, I read all the comme
by tokenadult 13y ago
It took a while for me to get the fine submitted article here to load. Submitting to HN must have slashdotted the author's site. Meanwhile, I read all the comments here. Even Google's cache of the article took a long time to load.
The author's concerns are largely about the privacy differences between a company based in the United States and a company based in the UK. As comments here and on the general issue of government surveillance over the past month have pointed out, that is a distinction without much of a difference. If networks don't have technical protocols that are completely proof against third-party hacking, AND protected by data privacy rules respected by all national governments, any data about you gathered by anyone might possibly be read by anyone else. After all, United States diplomatic cables that were classified and sent through supposedly secure channels are now readable by anyone anywhere in the world who visits the Wikileaks website. And so on. Without united effort by all countries and some considerable developments in technical protocols, it is doubtful that any of us have privacy from any would-be viewer--not from Al Qaeda, not from the Russian security agencies, and not from anyone.
On the broader topic of what can be known about an individual from an individual's genome, I'll share some links to some recent publications about behavior genetics. Genomes are less revelatory than some researchers supposed that they would be a few years ago. That doesn't stop individual genomes from being very good identifiers of individuals, but it means that classifying people by their genetically revealed propensity for one kind of behavior or another is probably a fool's errand.
HERITABILITY FAQ
It is well known, on the one hand, that ALL human behavioral characteristics are heritable. (It is an abuse of language to say "heritable" in this context, but the abuse is conventional and standard in the field.) So we can agree with the professional literature that your tendency to vote for one political party rather than another is heritable. Your attribution of causes for human differences (e.g., human differences in IQ) is also heritable. Your opinion about regulation of the Internet is heritable. Everything about human behavior is heritable.
Eric Turkheimer has recently been president of the Behavior Genetics Association, and he has the very kind habit of posting most of his peer-reviewed journal articles on his faculty website.
http://people.virginia.edu/~ent3c/vita1_turkheimer.htm http://people.virginia.edu/~ent3c/vita1_turkheimer.htm
Lars Penke is another, younger researcher who posts most of his publications on his personal website.
http://www.larspenke.eu/en/publications/publications.html http://www.larspenke.eu/en/publications/publications.html
I have the pleasure of meeting many other researchers in human genetics just about weekly during the school year at the University of Minnesota "journal club" Psychology 8935: Readings in Behavioral Genetics and Individual Differences Psychology. From those sources and other sources, I have learned about current review articles on human behavior genetics that help dispel misconceptions that are even commonplace among medically or scientifically trained persons who aren't keeping up with current research.
An interesting review article,
Turkheimer, E. (2008, Spring). A better way to use twins for developmental research. LIFE Newsletter, 2, 1-5
http://people.virginia.edu/~ent3c/papers2/Articles%20for%20Online%20CV/Turkheimer%20(2008).pdf http://people.virginia.edu/~ent3c/papers2/Articles%20for%20O...
admits the disappointment of behavior genetics researchers.
"But back to the question: What does heritability mean? Almost everyone who has ever thought about heritability has reached a commonsense intuition about it: One way or another, heritability has to be some kind of index of how genetic a trait is. That intuition explains why so many thousands of heritability coefficients have been calculated over the years. Once the twin registries have been assembled, it's easy and fun, like having a genoscope you can point at one trait after another to take a reading of how genetic things are. Height? Very genetic. Intelligence? Pretty genetic. Schizophrenia? That looks pretty genetic too. Personality? Yep, that too. And over multiple studies and traits the heritabilities go up and down, providing the basis for nearly infinite Talmudic revisions of the grand theories of the heritability of things, perfect grist for the wheels of social science.
"Unfortunately, that fundamental intuition is wrong. Heritability isn't an index of how genetic a trait is. A great deal of time has been wasted in the effort of measuring the heritability of traits in the false expectation that somehow the genetic nature of psychological phenomena would be revealed. There are many reasons for making this strong statement, but the most important of them harkens back to the description of heritability as an effect size. An effect size of the R2 family is a standardized estimate of the proportion of the variance in one variable that is reduced when another variable is held constant statistically. In this case it is an estimate of how much the variance of a trait would be reduced if everyone were genetically identical. With a moment's thought you can see that the answer to the question of how much variance would be reduced if everyone was genetically identical depends crucially on how genetically different everyone was in the first place."
Johnson, Wendy; Turkheimer, Eric; Gottesman, Irving I.; Bouchard Jr., Thomas (2009). Beyond Heritability: Twin Studies in Behavioral Research. Current Directions in Psychological Science, 18, 4, 217-220
http://people.virginia.edu/~ent3c/papers2/Articles%20for%20Online%20CV/Johnson%20(2009).pdf http://people.virginia.edu/~ent3c/papers2/Articles%20for%20O...
is another interesting review article that includes the statement "Moreover, even highly heritable traits can be strongly manipulated by the environment, so heritability has little if anything to do with controllability. For example, height is on the order of 90% heritable, yet North and South Koreans, who come from the same genetic background, presently differ in average height by a full 6 inches (Pak, 2004; Schwekendiek, 2008)."
The review article Johnson, W. (2010). Understanding the Genetics of Intelligence: Can Height Help? Can Corn Oil?. Current Directions in Psychological Science, 19(3), 177-182
http://apsychoserver.psych.arizona.edu/JJBAReprints/PSYC621/Johnson%20Current%20Directions%20Psych%20Science%202010%20(G%20and%20E%20in%20IQ).pdf http://apsychoserver.psych.arizona.edu/JJBAReprints/PSYC621/...
looks at some famous genetic experiments to show how little is explained by gene frequencies even in thoroughly studied populations defined by artificial selection.
"Together, however, the developmental natures of GCA [general cognitive ability] and height, the likely influences of gene-environment correlations and interactions on their developmental processes, and the potential for genetic background and environmental circumstances to release previously unexpressed genetic variation suggest that very different combinations of genes may produce identical IQs or heights or levels of any other psychological trait. And the same genes may produce very different IQs and heights against different genetic backgrounds and in different environmental circumstances. This would be especially the case if height and GCA and other psychological traits are only single facets of multifaceted traits actually under more systematic genetic regulation, such as overall body size and balance between processing capacity and stimulus reactivity. Genetic influences on individual differences in psychological characteristics are real and important but are unlikely to be straightforward and deterministic. We will understand them best through investigation of their manifestation in biological and social developmental processes."
Turkheimer, E. (2011). Genetics and human agency (Commentary on Dar-Nimrod & Heine, 2011). Psychological Bulletin, 137, 825-828. DOI: 10.1037/a0024306
http://people.virginia.edu/~ent3c/papers2/Articles%20for%20Online%20CV/Turkheimer_darnimrod%20comm%20(2011).pdf http://people.virginia.edu/~ent3c/papers2/Articles%20for%20O...
reemphasizes the point that a heritability calculation tells us nothing about subject to environmental influences a human trait is. "That heritability depends on the population in which it is measured is one of the most frequently repeated caveats in the social sciences, but it is nevertheless often forgotten in the breach. (For example, it is nearly meaningless for Dar-Nimrod and Heine to note that 'heritability [of intelligence is] typically estimated to range from .50 to .85' [p. 805]. The heritability of intelligence isn’t anything, and even placing it in a range is misleading. Making a numerical point estimate of the heritability of intelligence is akin to saying, 'Social psychologists usually estimate the F ratio for the fundamental attribution error to be between 2.0 and 4.0.') The observation that genotypic variation accounts for 90% of the variation in height in the modern world depends on the variability of genotype and environment relevant to height. Among cloned animals with widely varying diets, body size is perfectly environmental with heritability of 0; in genetically variable animals raised in identical environments heritability is 1.0. This is no mere statistical fine point: it means that the entire project of assessing how essentially genetic traits are in terms of measured heritability coefficients is a fool’s errand."
- guelo 13y ago> not from Al Qaeda, not from the Russian security agencies, and not from anyone That's a silly strawman. No one has the capability that the NSA has, lavishly funded as it is by the world's wealthiest superpower. There is absolutely no reason to fear Al-Qaeda getting into your data.
- yuvadam 13y agoThat's not the point. I believe OP is speaking of security by design (as opposed to security by policy), such that no malicious/unauthorized user will _ever_ have the ability to see the data, even if 100 years from now Al Qaeda is the world's wealthiest superpower.
- tokenadult 13y agoExactly that. Once the beans are spilled, anybody can pick them up.
- Houshalter 13y agoWith the NSA saving all your data, it's entirely possible someone could steal it. Unlikely maybe, but your data may very well be there 50 years later. Whatever the government becomes, whoever gets access to that data in that time, how many people will have tried to hack into it in that time.
- bjterry 13y agoHeritability is precisely specified. It allows you to make predictions within its realm of validity. It's useful and so it is used. If you know my genome, and you know the broad social environment I live in, you can make more accurate predictions about my obesity than if you only know my social environment. > This is no mere statistical fine point: it means that the entire project of assessing how essentially genetic traits are in terms of measured heritability coefficients is a fool’s errand. The key word in this statement is "essentially," which in this context is being used to mean "fundamentally." But we DO know something about the environment, so it doesn't matter if heritability is a "fundamental" measure, if all you want to do is use it to make predictions about things. If you live on an Earth that has food on it you can expect that the heritability of "starves to death" is different than if you live on an Earth that does not have food on it, in which case heritability is undefined because everyone dies (no variation, divide by zero). Similarly, if you have performed your heritability studies in a modern Western society then that heritability estimate remains valid for people drawn from that society despite the fact that it is not an "essential" measure of anything. None of this contradicts the quotes that you have included, but I want to make sure people understand that there is actually a reason we use heritability, it matches intuitions so long as your environment is fixed or similar, and that it does actually provide us with information about the world we live in. It doesn't tell you how controllable a phenotype is through environmental factors, but it does tell you how much it's being controlled right now.