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Well, it's effective. If the end result of Snowden's choice to take 3-4 NSA laptops into the two largest strategic competitor nations of the United States is no

Well, it's effective. If the end result of Snowden's choice to take 3-4 NSA laptops into the two largest strategic competitor nations of the United States is nothing more than exposing the domestic surveillance, then an argument can be made for him being a noble whistle blower, but if the Russians and Chinese image those laptops and it costs lives, then Snowden's choice not to remain in the U.S. and blow the whistle will be viewed as cowardice.

JonSkeptic 13y ago
Something to consider as well: if Russian or Chinese intelligence agencies image those laptops and it does not cost lives, but causes the failure of many ongoing operations, is he still a coward?
- mtgx 13y ago
  Are you asking if it would be a bad thing if spying operations that should've never happened, get ended?
- theorique 13y ago
  Depends on what operations. Domestic: hero Foreign: traitor
- mcantelon 13y ago
  The operations of an organization sketchy enough to lie to congress and ignore the Constitution might be operations that really should fail.
antocv 13y ago
If he wanted to do damage he could, you have to look at the intent of peoples actions. He was forced by the intent of US government to be where he is now, that is cowardice by the US government to withdraw his passport, force a president on the ground and search his plane, all for giving a few powerpoint presentations to journalists! Had the US governemnt and NSA/CIA cowards not acted like the Stalinists the are, Snowden could still have been in USA, but thats not a place where he can talk freely, thats not a place where he can feel safe and if you believe otherwise you must have your head up in the sand for the last few months. He needs the laptops/the information, thats the only thing keeping him from a good dose of polonium.
- lordCarbonFiber 13y ago
  The problem is by taking those laptops Snowden moved from being a whistleblower (a status that can be protected by laws and at least gives him a case in court) to an explict lawbreaker in the fact that US has strict export control laws governing protected data. Now, by means of either niavaty, cowardance, or ignorance, Snowden cannot avoid jail time in the US even assuming he isn't procecuted for leaking the information to The Guardian. Publicly leaking the information while going on trial in the US would have lead to people actually talking about the leaked information instead of focusing on the man as well as giving him a legal platform to stand on. I can't speak for Snowden's motivations be it cowardice, stupidity, or some disillusionment, but by leaving the country he hamstrung his own legitimacy and made it very difficult for the relevant information to be acted upon or even fully exposed.
  - antocv 13y ago
    By leaving the country he is still alive, in freedom and able to see the sun. Do you honestly really think he would have received a fair trial that would have begun now and not after 2-3 years of solitary confinement, only having the memory of a day? A fair trail. USA is not the freedom country you so highly think of, these events should be enough for you to reevaluate it. He still hasnt leaked any damaging information mind you, no matter what is on those laptops and if its safe or not, he has so far made interviews and given a powerpoint to newspapers. USA and most western democracies are countries where you cannot avoid jail if the government wants you there, you too are a criminal - copyright infrigement, and what no, they'll always find something, which is kind of the problem, you're a criminal but those who are elite criminals dont face jail. When will NSA chief face a trail for lying to congress and breaking 4th amandement? When will NSA employee face a trial and jail time for going above his clearance and snooping on other peoples lives?
    - smalltalk 13y ago
      Let me guess, you're a soviet?
      - 13y ago
mcantelon 13y ago
>If the end result of Snowden's choice to take 3-4 NSA laptops into the two largest strategic competitor nations of the United States is nothing more than exposing the domestic surveillance There's been nothing to suggest he has any intention other than exposing the NSA's illegal mass surveillance.
deleted 13y ago
[deleted]

JonSkeptic 13y ago

Something to consider as well: if Russian or Chinese intelligence agencies image those laptops and it does not cost lives, but causes the failure of many ongoing operations, is he still a coward?

mtgx 13y ago
Are you asking if it would be a bad thing if spying operations that should've never happened, get ended?
theorique 13y ago
Depends on what operations. Domestic: hero Foreign: traitor
mcantelon 13y ago
The operations of an organization sketchy enough to lie to congress and ignore the Constitution might be operations that really should fail.

antocv 13y ago

If he wanted to do damage he could, you have to look at the intent of peoples actions. He was forced by the intent of US government to be where he is now, that is cowardice by the US government to withdraw his passport, force a president on the ground and search his plane, all for giving a few powerpoint presentations to journalists! Had the US governemnt and NSA/CIA cowards not acted like the Stalinists the are, Snowden could still have been in USA, but thats not a place where he can talk freely, thats not a place where he can feel safe and if you believe otherwise you must have your head up in the sand for the last few months. He needs the laptops/the information, thats the only thing keeping him from a good dose of polonium.

lordCarbonFiber 13y ago
The problem is by taking those laptops Snowden moved from being a whistleblower (a status that can be protected by laws and at least gives him a case in court) to an explict lawbreaker in the fact that US has strict export control laws governing protected data. Now, by means of either niavaty, cowardance, or ignorance, Snowden cannot avoid jail time in the US even assuming he isn't procecuted for leaking the information to The Guardian. Publicly leaking the information while going on trial in the US would have lead to people actually talking about the leaked information instead of focusing on the man as well as giving him a legal platform to stand on. I can't speak for Snowden's motivations be it cowardice, stupidity, or some disillusionment, but by leaving the country he hamstrung his own legitimacy and made it very difficult for the relevant information to be acted upon or even fully exposed.
- antocv 13y ago
  By leaving the country he is still alive, in freedom and able to see the sun. Do you honestly really think he would have received a fair trial that would have begun now and not after 2-3 years of solitary confinement, only having the memory of a day? A fair trail. USA is not the freedom country you so highly think of, these events should be enough for you to reevaluate it. He still hasnt leaked any damaging information mind you, no matter what is on those laptops and if its safe or not, he has so far made interviews and given a powerpoint to newspapers. USA and most western democracies are countries where you cannot avoid jail if the government wants you there, you too are a criminal - copyright infrigement, and what no, they'll always find something, which is kind of the problem, you're a criminal but those who are elite criminals dont face jail. When will NSA chief face a trail for lying to congress and breaking 4th amandement? When will NSA employee face a trial and jail time for going above his clearance and snooping on other peoples lives?
  - smalltalk 13y ago
    Let me guess, you're a soviet?
    - 13y ago

mcantelon 13y ago

>If the end result of Snowden's choice to take 3-4 NSA laptops into the two largest strategic competitor nations of the United States is nothing more than exposing the domestic surveillance There's been nothing to suggest he has any intention other than exposing the NSA's illegal mass surveillance.

deleted 13y ago

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