4 ms·

The apology and aggressively calling out people criticizing them in blog/asrticle comments is particularly egregious as well - from both a "doing the right thin

The apology and aggressively calling out people criticizing them in blog/asrticle comments is particularly egregious as well - from both a "doing the right thing" perspective and from "stop digging the hole deeper" perspective. Apology here: http://evvnt.com/2013/07/i-love-ruby-an-equal-opportunity-employer/ http://evvnt.com/2013/07/i-love-ruby-an-equal-opportunity-em...

sp332 13y ago
That actually looks like a good apology. He starts by taking personal responsibility, clarifies the actual culture of the company, and throws in a legal disclaimer at the end.
- mratzloff 13y ago
  It's a terrible apology. See this response for an excellent explanation of why: http://lists.lrug.org/pipermail/chat-lrug.org/2013-July/009141.html http://lists.lrug.org/pipermail/chat-lrug.org/2013-July/0091...
  - sp332 13y ago
    I don't like it. The questions seem more like rhetorical accusations instead of a conversation. I really don't like point 4 since the guy takes personal responsibility at the beginning of the letter (which this reply says he doesn't). And I think the invitation to talk follows the advice in this post to the letter: http://www.maryrobinettekowal.com/journal/on-sexual-harassment-at-conventions-elise-matheson-speaks-out/ http://www.maryrobinettekowal.com/journal/on-sexual-harassme... That is, making it as easy as possible to report harmful behavior. And point 3 is just pointing out that he's getting defensive. Well of course he's defensive, you're attacking him! Edit: OK I had to read the link from point 2 twice but I think I understand it now. However I don't see how it's relevant since it says "I didn't intend for you to feel that way, so if you do feel that way, don't blame me! My intent magically inoculates me from responsibility for what I actually said and how it was received!" But the apology specifically says "I got it wrong" and never claims that people shouldn't be offended. The whole reply is just wrong.
- hamburglar 13y ago
  It isn't an apology if someone reading it can't even figure out what he's apologizing for, or in fact if he's actually apologizing, or merely saying "I should apologize" and considering it done. Hell, for all we know this isn't even referencing the original article -- maybe he screwed up in more than one douchey, sexist way today and this apology is for one of the others. :)
  - sp332 13y ago
    Are we looking at the same page? Mine says, in BOLD print, I also would like to offer my Humble apologies when we get it wrong, today I got it wrong. I'm not sure how you could construe this to not be an apology.
    - hamburglar 13y ago
      What's "it"? He's very carefully not saying what he "got wrong." It also reads like someone trying hard not to just flat out say "I apologize." You've got two sentiments: 1) "if we get it wrong I would offer an apology" and 2) "we got it wrong", neither of which are an apology, but together imply an apology without actually saying it. Why? All it serves to do is make your apology seem not very ... apologetic. It's the "mistakes were made" approach.

sp332 13y ago

That actually looks like a good apology. He starts by taking personal responsibility, clarifies the actual culture of the company, and throws in a legal disclaimer at the end.

mratzloff 13y ago
It's a terrible apology. See this response for an excellent explanation of why: http://lists.lrug.org/pipermail/chat-lrug.org/2013-July/009141.html http://lists.lrug.org/pipermail/chat-lrug.org/2013-July/0091...
- sp332 13y ago
  I don't like it. The questions seem more like rhetorical accusations instead of a conversation. I really don't like point 4 since the guy takes personal responsibility at the beginning of the letter (which this reply says he doesn't). And I think the invitation to talk follows the advice in this post to the letter: http://www.maryrobinettekowal.com/journal/on-sexual-harassment-at-conventions-elise-matheson-speaks-out/ http://www.maryrobinettekowal.com/journal/on-sexual-harassme... That is, making it as easy as possible to report harmful behavior. And point 3 is just pointing out that he's getting defensive. Well of course he's defensive, you're attacking him! Edit: OK I had to read the link from point 2 twice but I think I understand it now. However I don't see how it's relevant since it says "I didn't intend for you to feel that way, so if you do feel that way, don't blame me! My intent magically inoculates me from responsibility for what I actually said and how it was received!" But the apology specifically says "I got it wrong" and never claims that people shouldn't be offended. The whole reply is just wrong.
hamburglar 13y ago
It isn't an apology if someone reading it can't even figure out what he's apologizing for, or in fact if he's actually apologizing, or merely saying "I should apologize" and considering it done. Hell, for all we know this isn't even referencing the original article -- maybe he screwed up in more than one douchey, sexist way today and this apology is for one of the others. :)
- sp332 13y ago
  Are we looking at the same page? Mine says, in BOLD print, I also would like to offer my Humble apologies when we get it wrong, today I got it wrong. I'm not sure how you could construe this to not be an apology.
  - hamburglar 13y ago
    What's "it"? He's very carefully not saying what he "got wrong." It also reads like someone trying hard not to just flat out say "I apologize." You've got two sentiments: 1) "if we get it wrong I would offer an apology" and 2) "we got it wrong", neither of which are an apology, but together imply an apology without actually saying it. Why? All it serves to do is make your apology seem not very ... apologetic. It's the "mistakes were made" approach.