8 ms·

It looks like Canonical, as well as Microsoft, think that something in the form factor of a MS Surface is the way things are going. If you are going to have a d

by shubb 13y ago

It looks like Canonical, as well as Microsoft, think that something in the form factor of a MS Surface is the way things are going. If you are going to have a desktop/tablet, you need a touch driven UI. Five years ago, when Samsung Q1 UMPCs were exciting [1], I'd have agreed, but it turns out that tablets (with tiny their screens even when you plug in a keyboard), are crap for creation. People don't just want to be passive consumers. Hence, this unified Tablet/PC idea is a bad one. I'm sure it'll fly eventually, just like mice over trackerballs, but that doesn't mean it's better. Dedicated devices that are good at creation and consumption respectively (PC, Laptop, TV, Tablet) are better. Unified Tablet/PCs yield interfaces that are bad for everything, and extra RSI from the touchscreen. But it's the way of the future, so Linux had better be ready. Because soon it'll be hard to buy a laptop that isn't a tablet. And can you think of a better Desktop Environment for touch screen than Canonicals? [1]http://www.mobiletechreview.com/notebooks/Samsung-Q1-UMPC.htm http://www.mobiletechreview.com/notebooks/Samsung-Q1-UMPC.ht...

tehwalrus 13y ago
> "something in the form factor of a MS Surface" you mean something in the form factor of the iPad? I don't want to get into a debate about who made that shaped device first, but the iPad was the first that anyone normal had heard of.
- shubb 13y ago
  The vision of the surface (unlike the ipad) is that it is both a tablet, and a PC. You can mount it on a wall, put a bluetooth keyboard and mouse under it, and you are at a PC. You can clip in the little clippy keyboard, and it's a laptop. I don't have a problem with ipads. Ipads are a specialist device for consuming content, and apple make laptops for doing other stuff on. You're supposed to have both. I have a problem with Tablet/PCs, like the surface, because they are trying to be both, and failing. It's like asking for a lorry that's also a sports car - you're gonna get something, and it's gonna be really really bad.
  - DennisP 13y ago
    Personally I'd kinda like to have a bigger Surface-style device, like 15", and plug in my mechanical keyboard. That way the laptop's keyboard isn't getting in the way. Only trouble is it wouldn't be good for use on my lap, but that could be solved with an arrangement similar to a Surface with keyboard attached, where the "keyboard" is just something to put my real keyboard on. This could also be a nice arrangement for people who fly a lot, if you could hang the screen on the seat in front of you.
  - tehwalrus 13y ago
    fair points all - in this way, Ubuntu is indeed more similar to Windows 8 on a tablet than iOS on an iPad is to either.
dreamfactory 13y ago
> but it turns out that tablets (with tiny their screens even when you plug in a keyboard), are crap for creation Disagree massively. If you look at the iOS market, you'll see a ton of content creating apps making good money. For example, ipads are now better for making music on than laptops.
- walshemj 13y ago
  can you get Live, Cubase or Reason on a ipad yet? can you connect your pro fire-wire sound card to an ipad? NO tablets are great for playback and controller use cases for composing/creation not so much. Now Live on a Surface pro might be good for music creation.
  - dreamfactory 13y ago
    Obviously you won't get a 1:1 correlation with legacy desktop apps. ReBirth is an example of an app arguably not worth porting to ipad. Unsurprisingly, the ipad does better in areas where it innovates and sometimes exceeds desktop capabilities - for example apps like Konkreet Performer, Traktor, Reactable, Samplr, Lemur, Impaktor, Electrify, all the Korg and Moog apps. There are a ton of DAWs to choose from but they are among the less interesting things out there.
    - likeclockwork 13y ago
      Calling Live a 'legacy desktop app'?
      - dreamfactory 13y ago
        Isn't desktop legacy by definition? ;)
        tonyedgecombe 13y ago
        Some of us prefer the term mature.
takluyver 13y ago
The goal Ubuntu appears to be aiming for is that you dock your phone/tablet to a workstation setup with a full-sized screen and keyboard, and all your apps and content seamlessly carries on in the new environment. That's a bit different from Surface's model of attaching a keyboard and using the same touchscreen.

by shubb 13y ago

tehwalrus 13y ago

> "something in the form factor of a MS Surface" you mean something in the form factor of the iPad? I don't want to get into a debate about who made that shaped device first, but the iPad was the first that anyone normal had heard of.

shubb 13y ago
The vision of the surface (unlike the ipad) is that it is both a tablet, and a PC. You can mount it on a wall, put a bluetooth keyboard and mouse under it, and you are at a PC. You can clip in the little clippy keyboard, and it's a laptop. I don't have a problem with ipads. Ipads are a specialist device for consuming content, and apple make laptops for doing other stuff on. You're supposed to have both. I have a problem with Tablet/PCs, like the surface, because they are trying to be both, and failing. It's like asking for a lorry that's also a sports car - you're gonna get something, and it's gonna be really really bad.
- DennisP 13y ago
  Personally I'd kinda like to have a bigger Surface-style device, like 15", and plug in my mechanical keyboard. That way the laptop's keyboard isn't getting in the way. Only trouble is it wouldn't be good for use on my lap, but that could be solved with an arrangement similar to a Surface with keyboard attached, where the "keyboard" is just something to put my real keyboard on. This could also be a nice arrangement for people who fly a lot, if you could hang the screen on the seat in front of you.
- tehwalrus 13y ago
  fair points all - in this way, Ubuntu is indeed more similar to Windows 8 on a tablet than iOS on an iPad is to either.

dreamfactory 13y ago

> but it turns out that tablets (with tiny their screens even when you plug in a keyboard), are crap for creation Disagree massively. If you look at the iOS market, you'll see a ton of content creating apps making good money. For example, ipads are now better for making music on than laptops.

walshemj 13y ago
can you get Live, Cubase or Reason on a ipad yet? can you connect your pro fire-wire sound card to an ipad? NO tablets are great for playback and controller use cases for composing/creation not so much. Now Live on a Surface pro might be good for music creation.
- dreamfactory 13y ago
  Obviously you won't get a 1:1 correlation with legacy desktop apps. ReBirth is an example of an app arguably not worth porting to ipad. Unsurprisingly, the ipad does better in areas where it innovates and sometimes exceeds desktop capabilities - for example apps like Konkreet Performer, Traktor, Reactable, Samplr, Lemur, Impaktor, Electrify, all the Korg and Moog apps. There are a ton of DAWs to choose from but they are among the less interesting things out there.
  - likeclockwork 13y ago
    Calling Live a 'legacy desktop app'?
    - dreamfactory 13y ago
      Isn't desktop legacy by definition? ;)
      - tonyedgecombe 13y ago
        Some of us prefer the term mature.

takluyver 13y ago

The goal Ubuntu appears to be aiming for is that you dock your phone/tablet to a workstation setup with a full-sized screen and keyboard, and all your apps and content seamlessly carries on in the new environment. That's a bit different from Surface's model of attaching a keyboard and using the same touchscreen.