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Yup. Moving from the US back to the UK, my salary took a hit from $110k down to $70k. My guess (and this is no more than a guess) is that the difference is pri

Yup. Moving from the US back to the UK, my salary took a hit from $110k down to $70k. My guess (and this is no more than a guess) is that the difference is primarily cultural. There is an acceptance in the US that technical skills are a core part of value creation, and as a result developers tend to be more tightly integrated into the "business". In a mild feedback loop, this in turn causes US developer culture to orient more towards the business, to the extent that developer and management roles and responsibilities start to overlap. (I am, of course, generalising. My experience is with the NYC startup scene, and so is not likely to be generally applicable). By contrast, the boundary between the front and back ends of the business is more distinct in the UK. In part, this is due to the slightly more introverted/passive/geeky technical culture in the UK, which tends to reduce the involvement of technical staff in the management process. In part, it is also due to the attitude of the "business" - which tends to value the sales process as the key part of value creation - with technical staff tending to be seen more as an overhead than as the engine of the business. In extreme cases, this can manifest itself as an extremely derogatory attitude towards developers. "Glorified typists" was a phrase that I came across once - although fortunately this is a rare extreme. So, my guess is that IT salaries are lower in Europe than in the US because developers in Europe have less autonomy and are less integrated into business decision making, partly as a result of an introverted and passive developer culture, whereas in the US, greater interaction between developers and management drives an increased perception of the value of technical skills, and a greater role in business decision making.

daneel 13y ago
You've described my experience as a developer quite accurately, though all of my development experience (8+ years) has been in Canada. I'd say that here, the separation between developers and managers is very clear, and the derogatory jabs at developers was prevalent in 3 out of 4 of the development gigs that I've had over the years. Unfortunately, there doesn't seem to be a strong tech/development culture here, or at least I haven't been exposed to it if it does exist. Most developers are content to see themselves as peons and want no part of the decision making process, which isn't doing much for those that do. I've resigned to the fact that if I want to attain some autonomy in my career, at least in Canada, my only option is entrepreneurship.
codegeek 13y ago
"developers in Europe have less autonomy and are less integrated into business decision making, partly as a result of an introverted and passive developer culture, whereas in the US, greater interaction between developers and management drives an increased perception of the value of technical skills, and a greater role in business decision making." To an extent, this has been my experience as well since I work with many globally distributed teams across US, Europe and Asia as well. It is probably not fair to generalize this but I have always noticed that developers in the UK/Europe tend to focus only on the actual code "what" is required and when it comes to any decision making, they usually do not have much say (whether voluntary or because of management structure). In the US however, developers are a lot more involved in management discussions and decision making. Again, I would be careful not to generalize this.

daneel 13y ago

You've described my experience as a developer quite accurately, though all of my development experience (8+ years) has been in Canada. I'd say that here, the separation between developers and managers is very clear, and the derogatory jabs at developers was prevalent in 3 out of 4 of the development gigs that I've had over the years. Unfortunately, there doesn't seem to be a strong tech/development culture here, or at least I haven't been exposed to it if it does exist. Most developers are content to see themselves as peons and want no part of the decision making process, which isn't doing much for those that do. I've resigned to the fact that if I want to attain some autonomy in my career, at least in Canada, my only option is entrepreneurship.

codegeek 13y ago

"developers in Europe have less autonomy and are less integrated into business decision making, partly as a result of an introverted and passive developer culture, whereas in the US, greater interaction between developers and management drives an increased perception of the value of technical skills, and a greater role in business decision making." To an extent, this has been my experience as well since I work with many globally distributed teams across US, Europe and Asia as well. It is probably not fair to generalize this but I have always noticed that developers in the UK/Europe tend to focus only on the actual code "what" is required and when it comes to any decision making, they usually do not have much say (whether voluntary or because of management structure). In the US however, developers are a lot more involved in management discussions and decision making. Again, I would be careful not to generalize this.