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I do not think managing an open-source project is so different than running a company. > Linus doesn't run a business. He's the kernel admin He's also the ori

I do not think managing an open-source project is so different than running a company. > Linus doesn't run a business. He's the kernel admin He's also the original author. And he still is an awesome developer and the Linux kernel is not his only accomplishment. Git is another one. Linus is one of those people that can change the face of our industry over night and he has done so at least twice. Not only that, but if you read his trail of angry emails, one thing is for sure - he's also one of those people in the open-source community that care deeply about users. Many of his rants are about changes in the kernel that break the userland. This is not so different than a business owner caring for his customers. > I want to get his opinion on managing code not managing people. He doesn't deal with payroll, 401ks, employee vacations or benefits, he doesn't care about retention, he cares about code That's an odd statement to make. A business owner cares about revenue, not payrolls, 401ks, employee's vacations or benefits - those are just things that a business owner must do to secure the company's revenue. Also, you're wrong, because Linus's job and greatest skill is in managing people. If it were about "the code", Linux the kernel would have taken a back seat to 386BSD.

DigitalJack 13y ago
The main difference is everybody is remote. I don't doubt Linus would be less brutal in person.
- pmelendez 13y ago
  > "I don't doubt Linus would be less brutal in person." My personal rule of thumb is do not say something written that I wouldn't say in person, especially if I am using a profanity language.
  - e40 13y ago
    That may be your rule, but it is definitely not the norm. I've known countless people, including the infamous Erik Naggum, that are far more abrasive via email than they are in person. Erik was, in person, a sweet and thoughtful person that would never attack someone. On email or usenet, he was on the order of Linus at attacking people. So, while it's your good rule of thumb, my observation over the years is it is not followed by many.
    - kragen 13y ago
      I saw lots of email from Erik whose viciousness went far above and beyond anything I've ever seen from Linus. And Erik was extremely unsuccessful at organizing collaborative efforts; Lisp languished for over a decade under his dominance. I don't think it's a coincidence that Erik's retiring from comp.lang.lisp was roughly concurrent with the revival of the Lisp family of languages.
      - e40 13y ago
        First, Erik wasn't Lisp. He didn't even work for a Lisp company, except for consulting for Franz briefly. Second, your cause and effect meter is way off. The resurgence of Lisp happened because there were a LOT of people out of work in 2001 and many of them started working on CMUCL and SBCL. Erik's influence ended outside of comp.lang.lisp and the influence of that usenet group was fairly small, in the greater scheme of things.
        kragen 13y ago
        Lisp didn't resurge because SBCL started being developed again. SBCL, although I like it, is still relatively little used, in the overall scheme of things, a scheme which includes Clojure, elisp, Racket, Clisp, Chicken, TinyScheme, Guile, Arc, MCL, and so on. Lisp resurged because new hackers started using Lisp again, maybe in part because of pg, but I think in large part because they didn't get driven away by Erik. Lisp companies are comparatively irrelevant. comp.lang.lisp was very important prior to the founding of Stack Overflow, EmacsWiki, and so on. It was a lot more important to Lisp than any Lisp company, and maybe more important than all Lisp companies put together.
        lispm 13y ago
        comp.lang.lisp has long lost any importance. Most Common Lisp users have moved on. The communication infrastructure shifted to the mailing lists ( http://dir.gmane.org/index.php?prefix=gmane.lisp http://dir.gmane.org/index.php?prefix=gmane.lisp ) and the #lisp IRC channel. That's where the real work was done. Even much random talk now has been moved since quite some time to reddit / lisp, stackoverflow, planet lisp and even Twitter #lisp. comp.lang.lisp is long dead.
  - D9u 13y ago
    My personal rule of thumb is do not say something written that I wouldn't say in person, especially if I am using a profanity language. Obviously not Linus' rule... Anyone who's ever followed the kernel dev mailing list knows this.
- DannyBee 13y ago
  He isn't different in person if you get him going. In fact, he'll happily admit "he likes to poke people" Basically, he's a very very very successful troll :)
14113 13y ago
The point about users reminds me of some of the better quotes about steve jobs, and his insistence on getting the feel, and user experience right.
joanofarf 13y ago
On what basis do you decide to contribute to one open-source project over another? On what basis do you decide to work for one business over another? Are your answers to those two questions the same? No? Then there's the difference. >Also, you're wrong, because Linus's job and greatest skill is in managing people. He doesn't manage people. He manages their contributions. Why are they contributing? Because they want to make it better. In general, businesses don't have volunteer employees who work there solely on the basis of wanting to make the product better. Their decision to work there is also based factors like the salary, the benefits, the culture, whether they like the people they work with/for, etc., some or all of which will vary from person to person.
- danmaz74 13y ago
  From my experience, managing volunteers is MUCH harder then managing employees. If Linus did what he did, he for sure is able to manage volunteers - which doesn't mean his way is the only way, or even the best way. But for sure it's a way that works.

DigitalJack 13y ago

The main difference is everybody is remote. I don't doubt Linus would be less brutal in person.

pmelendez 13y ago
> "I don't doubt Linus would be less brutal in person." My personal rule of thumb is do not say something written that I wouldn't say in person, especially if I am using a profanity language.
- e40 13y ago
  That may be your rule, but it is definitely not the norm. I've known countless people, including the infamous Erik Naggum, that are far more abrasive via email than they are in person. Erik was, in person, a sweet and thoughtful person that would never attack someone. On email or usenet, he was on the order of Linus at attacking people. So, while it's your good rule of thumb, my observation over the years is it is not followed by many.
  - kragen 13y ago
    I saw lots of email from Erik whose viciousness went far above and beyond anything I've ever seen from Linus. And Erik was extremely unsuccessful at organizing collaborative efforts; Lisp languished for over a decade under his dominance. I don't think it's a coincidence that Erik's retiring from comp.lang.lisp was roughly concurrent with the revival of the Lisp family of languages.
    - e40 13y ago
      First, Erik wasn't Lisp. He didn't even work for a Lisp company, except for consulting for Franz briefly. Second, your cause and effect meter is way off. The resurgence of Lisp happened because there were a LOT of people out of work in 2001 and many of them started working on CMUCL and SBCL. Erik's influence ended outside of comp.lang.lisp and the influence of that usenet group was fairly small, in the greater scheme of things.
      - kragen 13y ago
        Lisp didn't resurge because SBCL started being developed again. SBCL, although I like it, is still relatively little used, in the overall scheme of things, a scheme which includes Clojure, elisp, Racket, Clisp, Chicken, TinyScheme, Guile, Arc, MCL, and so on. Lisp resurged because new hackers started using Lisp again, maybe in part because of pg, but I think in large part because they didn't get driven away by Erik. Lisp companies are comparatively irrelevant. comp.lang.lisp was very important prior to the founding of Stack Overflow, EmacsWiki, and so on. It was a lot more important to Lisp than any Lisp company, and maybe more important than all Lisp companies put together.
        lispm 13y ago
        comp.lang.lisp has long lost any importance. Most Common Lisp users have moved on. The communication infrastructure shifted to the mailing lists ( http://dir.gmane.org/index.php?prefix=gmane.lisp http://dir.gmane.org/index.php?prefix=gmane.lisp ) and the #lisp IRC channel. That's where the real work was done. Even much random talk now has been moved since quite some time to reddit / lisp, stackoverflow, planet lisp and even Twitter #lisp. comp.lang.lisp is long dead.
- D9u 13y ago
  My personal rule of thumb is do not say something written that I wouldn't say in person, especially if I am using a profanity language. Obviously not Linus' rule... Anyone who's ever followed the kernel dev mailing list knows this.
DannyBee 13y ago
He isn't different in person if you get him going. In fact, he'll happily admit "he likes to poke people" Basically, he's a very very very successful troll :)

14113 13y ago

The point about users reminds me of some of the better quotes about steve jobs, and his insistence on getting the feel, and user experience right.

joanofarf 13y ago

On what basis do you decide to contribute to one open-source project over another? On what basis do you decide to work for one business over another? Are your answers to those two questions the same? No? Then there's the difference. >Also, you're wrong, because Linus's job and greatest skill is in managing people. He doesn't manage people. He manages their contributions. Why are they contributing? Because they want to make it better. In general, businesses don't have volunteer employees who work there solely on the basis of wanting to make the product better. Their decision to work there is also based factors like the salary, the benefits, the culture, whether they like the people they work with/for, etc., some or all of which will vary from person to person.

danmaz74 13y ago
From my experience, managing volunteers is MUCH harder then managing employees. If Linus did what he did, he for sure is able to manage volunteers - which doesn't mean his way is the only way, or even the best way. But for sure it's a way that works.