4 ms·

isn't any form of criticism an insult? Plus we're talking about Torvald's attitude, hard to avoid personal attacks when we're talking about the person himself.

• vacri 13y ago
  Not at all. Constructive criticism isn't insulting by definition. Calling someone a douche isn't constructive criticism. And there's a difference between attacking a person and attacking the actions - and look at what Torvalds does. Even his famous "shut the fuck up Mauro" comment is telling Mauro that his behaviour is inappropriate. He's not saying 'Mauro, you are a douche' directly insulting the guy, he's saying "I'm angry with you because you're breaking our tenets", talking about his actions and behaviour, and he even finishes up with expecting Mauro to fix the technical issue - a tacit acknowledgment of capability.
  • officemonkey 13y ago
    Calling someone a douche is constructive criticism. If I call you a douche, it means you're acting in self-centered, antagonistic manner that aggravating the relationship. Of course some people don't care about that. People don't fix things they don't feel are broken.
    • vacri 13y ago
      Rubbish. Constructive criticism requires input on specific paths to improve the situation. Telling someone they're a douche is just applying a generic insult. It's not even criticism of any kind, as douche is nonspecific.
      • officemonkey 13y ago
        >Rubbish. You're acting in self-centered, antagonistic manner that is aggravating the relationship.
        • vacri 13y ago
          I also think exactly the same thing of you, given that you think I'm stupid enough to believe that being called a douche is 'constructive criticism'. It doesn't require profanity to insult someone.
          • officemonkey 13y ago
            If you're offended by the word douche to describe a jerk, then we occupy different cultures. Similarly, if someone thinks being called a "jerk" is an insult devoid of constructive criticism, then they're likely either intentionally obdurate or they lack the self-awareness to identify their failings. I'm perfectly aware of my ability to be a douche. I just choose who to be a jerk to. Strangers on the internet: possibly; colleagues I work with: not so much.
            • vacri 13y ago
              I'm not offended by it in the slightest. I swear like a trooper. My issue is that you're trying to pass off a generic insult as 'constructive criticism'. What is insulting is that you think I'm stupid enough to believe it - it's not the words you're using, but the underlying context. It's either that, or you don't actually understand what constructive criticism is.
              • officemonkey 13y ago
                I'm probably stupid for starting this up again, but at the top of the thread, in my first comment, before I call Linus a douche, I spend two paragraphs describing what I think the problem is. If Linus actually read my HN comment and (a) was offended and (b) wanted constructive criticism, he would see that I believe he is poorly socialized for working in a certain (rather popular) type of work environment. That seems to me pretty constructive. Linus would not be suited for a job in diplomacy, or any other type of relationship-intensive enterprise. Now, if I just said "Linus is a douche," I'd give you your point. I already regret starting this up again, because you seem to be committed to your point. But WTF, I had 10 minutes to kill before I pick up my kid.
• boomlinde 13y ago
  > isn't any form of criticism an insult? Not if you go by the dictionary definitions. By what definition is any form of criticism an insult?