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I find his answer very reasonable (although I also found some of his past answers quite harsh).

by aymeric 13y ago

lacion 13y ago
i don't think sugar coating the world will make it less harsh.
- Ygg2 13y ago
  Yes it would. Aggressive behavior begets more and more aggressive behavior. E.g. if you punch things to make you feel better when you are in a bad mood, you are more likely to punch people/things when you are in a bad mood (in fact it has an addictive quality).
  - vacri 13y ago
    Repression is also bad. Moderation is key.
    - Ygg2 13y ago
      I never said repression is bad, but this isn't a singular time he was verbally abusive.
      - vacri 13y ago
        Not particularly suprising, since he's spent over twenty years in constant communication with people, something that very few other technocrats can boast.
claudius 13y ago
Sure, some answers are harsh, some are nicer, but as long as they get the job done, I don’t see a reason why one would want to complain about a ‘harsh’ answer – the world is not wrapped in friendly gift wrap and if you do something stupid, people are absolutely allowed to call you out on it without the unnecessary boilerplate in particular Angloamericans are so fond of using. Short is good, harsh is not a problem, if short means harsh, so be it.
- aymeric 13y ago
  Because "Short" and "nice" works too.
- lazyjones 13y ago
  > if you do something stupid, people are absolutely allowed to call you out on it The problem with cultural differences is that the effect of this might be not the intended one: the person you shouted at will consider you rude and as someone to avoid instead of reflecting on their actions and trying harder the next time. So it's not really smart to act like this, even if you feel it's "natural". You need to be someone important to be able to afford it and Linus (still) is.
  - claudius 13y ago
    > The problem with cultural differences is that the effect of this might be not the intended one ‘Be liberal in what you accept and conservative in what you send’ has two clauses for a reason, namely that trying to gauge the effect of what one says on every possible group will fail. Sure, someone you tell ‘no, this is utter crap, go back and fix it’ might find that rude and will never talk to you again, but on the other hand, someone might understand ‘this could be improved here and there and maybe you could change that’ as ‘oh, that’s fine apart from some trivialities’. > You need to be someone important to be able to afford it and Linus (still) is. I wouldn’t say you need to be someone important, you just have to be in a position where you don’t have to care about possibly maybe hurting the delicate feelings of the other person.
lazyjones 13y ago
I agree mostly, but I'm still wondering what kind of natural urges he is suppressing that he has to curse like that.
- coldtea 13y ago
  The natural urge to hit the idiot he's talking to on the head with a baseball bat of course.
  - acqq 13y ago
    He's lucky he grew up in older times and outside US: http://www.khou.com/news/texas-news/Texas-teen-charged-with-making-terroristic-threat-after-online-joke-212931111.html http://www.khou.com/news/texas-news/Texas-teen-charged-with-... "Texas teen charged with making terroristic threat after online joke" Careful with baseball bats here! Whatever we consider it, the "online world" became bigger and started to be less tolerant for friend-between-friend exploring of "who can think of something nastier."
- pasiaj 13y ago
  Huh? The whole point is that he is not suppressing the urges. When he feels frustrated, he might add a "fuck" or "shit" to convey that feeling. You, on the other hand, did not agree to something, felt mad or frustrated, and instead of conveying that frustration you snidely suggested that that he must be suppressing some "natural urges". Violent? Homosexual? From whose subconscious did those arise from? Not Linuses? (See what I did there? What kind of urges might _I_ be suppressing?) All in all: I find your reply to be a perfect example of what Linus is trying to avoid ("fake politeness, the lying, the office politics and backstabbing, _the passive aggressiveness_, and the buzzwords")
  - lazyjones 13y ago
    > The whole point is that he is not suppressing the urges. Freud would disagree and so do I. > you snidely suggested that that he must be suppressing some "natural urges" Same thing Linus did in the last paragraph. :-/ > your reply to be a perfect example of what Linus is trying to avoid ("fake politeness[...]" That makes no sense. I am just trying to analyze and understand his behavior. There's no emotion involved at all.

I find his answer very reasonable (although I also found some of his past answers quite harsh).

by aymeric 13y ago

I find his answer very reasonable (although I also found some of his past answers quite harsh).

lacion 13y ago

i don't think sugar coating the world will make it less harsh.

Ygg2 13y ago
Yes it would. Aggressive behavior begets more and more aggressive behavior. E.g. if you punch things to make you feel better when you are in a bad mood, you are more likely to punch people/things when you are in a bad mood (in fact it has an addictive quality).
- vacri 13y ago
  Repression is also bad. Moderation is key.
  - Ygg2 13y ago
    I never said repression is bad, but this isn't a singular time he was verbally abusive.
    - vacri 13y ago
      Not particularly suprising, since he's spent over twenty years in constant communication with people, something that very few other technocrats can boast.

claudius 13y ago

Sure, some answers are harsh, some are nicer, but as long as they get the job done, I don’t see a reason why one would want to complain about a ‘harsh’ answer – the world is not wrapped in friendly gift wrap and if you do something stupid, people are absolutely allowed to call you out on it without the unnecessary boilerplate in particular Angloamericans are so fond of using. Short is good, harsh is not a problem, if short means harsh, so be it.

aymeric 13y ago
Because "Short" and "nice" works too.
lazyjones 13y ago
> if you do something stupid, people are absolutely allowed to call you out on it The problem with cultural differences is that the effect of this might be not the intended one: the person you shouted at will consider you rude and as someone to avoid instead of reflecting on their actions and trying harder the next time. So it's not really smart to act like this, even if you feel it's "natural". You need to be someone important to be able to afford it and Linus (still) is.
- claudius 13y ago
  > The problem with cultural differences is that the effect of this might be not the intended one ‘Be liberal in what you accept and conservative in what you send’ has two clauses for a reason, namely that trying to gauge the effect of what one says on every possible group will fail. Sure, someone you tell ‘no, this is utter crap, go back and fix it’ might find that rude and will never talk to you again, but on the other hand, someone might understand ‘this could be improved here and there and maybe you could change that’ as ‘oh, that’s fine apart from some trivialities’. > You need to be someone important to be able to afford it and Linus (still) is. I wouldn’t say you need to be someone important, you just have to be in a position where you don’t have to care about possibly maybe hurting the delicate feelings of the other person.

lazyjones 13y ago

I agree mostly, but I'm still wondering what kind of natural urges he is suppressing that he has to curse like that.

coldtea 13y ago
The natural urge to hit the idiot he's talking to on the head with a baseball bat of course.
- acqq 13y ago
  He's lucky he grew up in older times and outside US: http://www.khou.com/news/texas-news/Texas-teen-charged-with-making-terroristic-threat-after-online-joke-212931111.html http://www.khou.com/news/texas-news/Texas-teen-charged-with-... "Texas teen charged with making terroristic threat after online joke" Careful with baseball bats here! Whatever we consider it, the "online world" became bigger and started to be less tolerant for friend-between-friend exploring of "who can think of something nastier."
pasiaj 13y ago
Huh? The whole point is that he is not suppressing the urges. When he feels frustrated, he might add a "fuck" or "shit" to convey that feeling. You, on the other hand, did not agree to something, felt mad or frustrated, and instead of conveying that frustration you snidely suggested that that he must be suppressing some "natural urges". Violent? Homosexual? From whose subconscious did those arise from? Not Linuses? (See what I did there? What kind of urges might _I_ be suppressing?) All in all: I find your reply to be a perfect example of what Linus is trying to avoid ("fake politeness, the lying, the office politics and backstabbing, _the passive aggressiveness_, and the buzzwords")
- lazyjones 13y ago
  > The whole point is that he is not suppressing the urges. Freud would disagree and so do I. > you snidely suggested that that he must be suppressing some "natural urges" Same thing Linus did in the last paragraph. :-/ > your reply to be a perfect example of what Linus is trying to avoid ("fake politeness[...]" That makes no sense. I am just trying to analyze and understand his behavior. There's no emotion involved at all.