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Instead of assuming ignorance, we should simply assume intent. But I think ignorance probably is sufficiently explanatory - access to snake oil sales pitches do

by Vivtek 13y ago

Instead of assuming ignorance, we should simply assume intent. But I think ignorance probably is sufficiently explanatory - access to snake oil sales pitches doesn't ensure informed decisions.

dragontamer 13y ago
Wyden and Udall have been consistently against these programs damn near a decade, and have been trying to reform section 215 of the Patriot act the whole time. Wyden and Udall have not had to "change" their opinion before or after this controversy, they've been consistently against it the whole time. Their reforms are the same that they've been pitching for many years, its just that no one has been listening. If you notice, they are the ones who are forcing the NSA to correct their public statements. http://www.wyden.senate.gov/news/blog/post/wyden-and-udall-to-general-alexander-nsa-must-correct-inaccurate-statement-in-fact-sheet http://www.wyden.senate.gov/news/blog/post/wyden-and-udall-t... They don't just listen to the NSA, they also correct the mistakes the NSA makes in public.
- Vivtek 13y ago
  Yeah, I see that. But have they really drawn public attention to it? No. They've gone with the flow because they somehow agree that if the American public knows the law that governs them, we will all be killed in our beds by terrorists. I have very little respect for people with the access and clout that Wyden and Udall have who fail to actually take any action outside their little box despite their probable understanding that this whole thing is undermining American democracy. And that's why I don't feel bad about ascribing intent. Sure, they want to introduce mild reform without breaking any rules or expectations - but they want to keep their perky little jobs as opposed to taking an actual stand. Why haven't they proposed any legislation addressing the fact that our policymakers are sworn to secrecy so they can't get a second opinion about the line they're being fed? Why haven't they brought any of this to the public for debate? Because they actually think that - except for a few tweaks - it is a good thing for America to be run by secret bodies using secret policies and judged only by secret courts. They have acclimated to a two-tier system of justice, one for people with pull and another for you and me.
  - dragontamer 13y ago
    http://www.wyden.senate.gov/news/press-releases/amendment-requires-government-to-end-practice-of-secretly-interpreting-law http://www.wyden.senate.gov/news/press-releases/amendment-re... Keep an eye on the date of these articles. Lets be frank here: Wyden has been _ignored_. He's been writing and trying to get the word out publicly for a very long time. The only shame is on you for not knowing Politics, and not supporting Wyden's cause sooner. It is not too late however to support Wyden or his proposals, if thats what you want. But your bastardized claims of Wyden only demonstrate how ignorant you are of American Politics. But whatever, you can just go ahead and ignore me. Or perhaps you can listen up to what politicians in Washington say for once. But if you decide to ignore politicians, and pass judgement upon them anyway, well... that just makes you an ignorant dumbass. So go on and assume everyone is against you on all matters, I'm sure that will play well for your sanity.

by Vivtek 13y ago

Instead of assuming ignorance, we should simply assume intent. But I think ignorance probably is sufficiently explanatory - access to snake oil sales pitches doesn't ensure informed decisions.

dragontamer 13y ago

Wyden and Udall have been consistently against these programs damn near a decade, and have been trying to reform section 215 of the Patriot act the whole time. Wyden and Udall have not had to "change" their opinion before or after this controversy, they've been consistently against it the whole time. Their reforms are the same that they've been pitching for many years, its just that no one has been listening. If you notice, they are the ones who are forcing the NSA to correct their public statements. http://www.wyden.senate.gov/news/blog/post/wyden-and-udall-to-general-alexander-nsa-must-correct-inaccurate-statement-in-fact-sheet http://www.wyden.senate.gov/news/blog/post/wyden-and-udall-t... They don't just listen to the NSA, they also correct the mistakes the NSA makes in public.

Vivtek 13y ago
Yeah, I see that. But have they really drawn public attention to it? No. They've gone with the flow because they somehow agree that if the American public knows the law that governs them, we will all be killed in our beds by terrorists. I have very little respect for people with the access and clout that Wyden and Udall have who fail to actually take any action outside their little box despite their probable understanding that this whole thing is undermining American democracy. And that's why I don't feel bad about ascribing intent. Sure, they want to introduce mild reform without breaking any rules or expectations - but they want to keep their perky little jobs as opposed to taking an actual stand. Why haven't they proposed any legislation addressing the fact that our policymakers are sworn to secrecy so they can't get a second opinion about the line they're being fed? Why haven't they brought any of this to the public for debate? Because they actually think that - except for a few tweaks - it is a good thing for America to be run by secret bodies using secret policies and judged only by secret courts. They have acclimated to a two-tier system of justice, one for people with pull and another for you and me.
- dragontamer 13y ago
  http://www.wyden.senate.gov/news/press-releases/amendment-requires-government-to-end-practice-of-secretly-interpreting-law http://www.wyden.senate.gov/news/press-releases/amendment-re... Keep an eye on the date of these articles. Lets be frank here: Wyden has been _ignored_. He's been writing and trying to get the word out publicly for a very long time. The only shame is on you for not knowing Politics, and not supporting Wyden's cause sooner. It is not too late however to support Wyden or his proposals, if thats what you want. But your bastardized claims of Wyden only demonstrate how ignorant you are of American Politics. But whatever, you can just go ahead and ignore me. Or perhaps you can listen up to what politicians in Washington say for once. But if you decide to ignore politicians, and pass judgement upon them anyway, well... that just makes you an ignorant dumbass. So go on and assume everyone is against you on all matters, I'm sure that will play well for your sanity.