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Ask HN: advice for working with a bad programmer

11 points by mxmpawn 13y ago

I'm working at a startup with another programmer, the founders are business guys and they don't even look at the code. We're working on two different applications which communicate through different API calls. The problem is the other guy has really bad coding practices(doesn't use version control, doesn't know how to debug code, writes overly complex code for simple things, ...), takes a lot of time to get something done and when he does the api doesn't work as intended. As my services depend on him, this results in a big waste of time. I tried suggesting him to improve in person and by email but I keep getting ignored. The project manager(and founder) doesn't seem to care or realize what's happening because I don't see him telling anything about this to the programmer. It's an interesting startup, good networking possibilities, good pay, work at home, twenty hours per week so it's hard for me to quit. We both work at home. What would you do in this situation?

7Figures2Commas 13y ago
Since it sounds like the other developer you're working with isn't going away any time soon, you have two simple options: 1. Deal with it. If you're being paid well, like working from home and nobody is (yet) concerned that it's taking you longer to deliver because of the other developer's shortcomings, you can learn to live with the situation and do your best to be as productive as possible in the 20 hours you're being paid for each week. 2. Quit. If your happiness ultimately requires that you work with competent people, you should seek out other opportunities that will give you the ability to do so.
julianpye 13y ago
As you mention that you both work from home, but that you met him in person, it sounds as if you're locally close together. As such the best thing would be to work together for one day. Think XP pair programming and start off with version control. Many people would like to learn better techniques, but need a non-stressful environment such as pair programming for it. Since he writes complex code for simple things, it sounds as if he is struggling and he may have a hard time learning more.
TempleOS 13y ago
I'm in jail. Don't worry -- God will do justice to my enemies. --------------- 39:7 And it came to pass after these things, that his master's wife cast her eyes upon Joseph; and she said, Lie with me. 39:8 But he refused, and said unto his master's wife, Behold, my master wotteth not what is with me in the house, and he hath committed all that he hath to my hand; 39:9 There is none greater in this house than I; neither hath he kept back any thing from me but thee, because thou art his wife: how then can I do this great wickedness, and sin against God? 39:10 And it came to pass, as she spake to Joseph day by day, that he hearkened not unto her, to lie by her, or to be with her. 39:11 And it came to pass about this time, that Joseph went into the house to do his business; and there was none of the men of the house there within. 39:12 And she caught him by his garment, saying, Lie with me: and he left his garment in her hand, and fled, and got him out. 39:13 And it came to pass, when she saw that he had left his garment in her hand, and was fled forth, 39:14 That she called unto the men of her house, and spake unto them, saying, See, he hath brought in an Hebrew unto us to mock us; he came in unto me to lie with me, and I cried with a loud voice: 39:15 And it came to pass, when he heard that I lifted up my voice and cried, that he left his garment with me, and fled, and got him out. 39:16 And she laid up his garment by her, until his lord came home. 39:17 And she spake unto him according to these words, saying, The Hebrew servant, which thou hast brought unto us, came in unto me to mock me: 39:18 And it came to pass, as I lifted up my voice and cried, that he left his garment with me, and fled out. 39:19 And it came to pass, when his master heard the words of his wife, which she spake unto him, saying, After this manner did thy servant to me; that his wrath was kindled. 39:20 And Joseph's master took him, and put him into the prison, a place where the king's prisoners were bound: and he was there in the prison. 39:21 But the LORD was with Joseph, and shewed him mercy, and gave him favour in the sight of the keeper of the prison. 39:22 And the keeper of the prison committed to Joseph's hand all the prisoners that were in the prison; and whatsoever they did there, he was the doer of it. 39:23 The keeper of the prison looked not to any thing that was under his hand; because the LORD was with him, and that which he did, the LORD made it to prosper. 40:1 And it came to pass after these things, that the butler of the king of Egypt and his baker had offended their lord the king of Egypt. 40:2 And Pharaoh was wroth against two of his officers, against the chief of the butlers, and against the chief of the bakers. 40:3 And he put them in ward in the house of the captain of the guard, into the prison, the place where Joseph was bound. 40:4 And the captain of the guard charged Joseph with them, and he served them: and they continued a season in ward. 40:5 And they dreamed a dream both of them, each man his dream in one night, each man according to the interpretation of his dream, the butler and the baker of the king of Egypt, which were bound in the prison. 40:6 And Joseph came in unto them in the morning, and looked upon them, and, behold, they were sad. 40:7 And he asked Pharaoh's officers that were with him in the ward of his lord's house, saying, Wherefore look ye so sadly to day? 40:8 And they said unto him, We have dreamed a dream, and there is no interpreter of it. And Joseph said unto them, Do not interpretations belong to God? tell me them, I pray you. 40:9 And the chief butler told his dream to Joseph, and said to him, In my dream, behold, a vine was before me; 40:10 And in the vine were three branches: and it was as though it budded, and her blossoms shot forth; and the clusters thereof brought forth ripe grapes: 40:11 And Pharaoh's cup was in my hand: and I took the grapes, and pressed them into Pharaoh's cup, and I gave the cup into Pharaoh's hand. 40:12 And Joseph said unto him, This is the interpretation of it: The three branches are three days: 40:13 Yet within three days shall Pharaoh lift up thine head, and restore thee unto thy place: and thou shalt deliver Pharaoh's cup into his hand, after the former manner when thou wast his butler. 40:14 But think on me when it shall be well with thee, and shew kindness, I pray thee, unto me, and make mention of me unto Pharaoh, and bring me out of this house: 40:15 For indeed I was stolen away out of the land of the Hebrews: and here also have I done nothing that they should put me into the dungeon. 40:16 When the chief baker saw that the interpretation was good, he said unto Joseph, I also was in my dream, and, behold, I had three white baskets on my head: 40:17 And in the uppermost basket there was of all manner of bakemeats for Pharaoh; and the birds did eat them out of the basket upon my head. 40:18 And Joseph answered and said, This is the interpretation thereof: The three baskets are three days: 40:19 Yet within three days shall Pharaoh lift up thy head from off thee, and shall hang thee on a tree; and the birds shall eat thy flesh from off thee. 40:20 And it came to pass the third day, which was Pharaoh's birthday, that he made a feast unto all his servants: and he lifted up the head of the chief butler and of the chief baker among his servants. 40:21 And he restored the chief butler unto his butlership again; and he gave the cup into Pharaoh's hand: 40:22 But he hanged the chief baker: as Joseph had interpreted to them. 40:23 Yet did not the chief butler remember Joseph, but forgat him. 41:1 And it came to pass at the end of two full years, that Pharaoh dreamed: and, behold, he stood by the river. 41:2 And, behold, there came up out of the river seven well favoured kine and fatfleshed; and they fed in a meadow.
hkarthik 13y ago
My advice in this situation would be to talk to the founder and ask them to hire someone else and let this guy go. If they won't, you should probably just quit. You will be carrying this individual for a long time, and it may take a third or fourth person coming on before it becomes more obvious that this individual is a problem. In situations like this, the founders should have hired on a technical lead and have both of you reporting to the lead. Or one of them should be technical enough to be the lead. I would suggest looking for opportunities that are managed in this way in the future.
sharemywin 13y ago
I think the biggest issue is the founders aren't working to fix the problem. But it might not be as big a problem right now. I would keep them in the loop but their first concerns should be deliverying a fantastic user experience and getting initial users. tThe backend code will probably need to be rewriten anyway to scale.
mattwritescode 13y ago
Dont give them any responsibility, tell them there rubbish and generally dont be nice to them. Make sure you tell them the reason you are being horrible is because there crap at there job. It will do one of two things to them. Either, make them leave, or make them want to improve themselves.
- deleted 13y ago
  [deleted]
- powatom 13y ago
  Or, this will be rightly construed as an inability to get along with your colleagues and you will be fired. "Because he's bad at his job" is not a defence for any kind of abuse.
- PencilAndPaper 13y ago
  Terrible advice! Stressing people out typically makes them less competent and more prone to error. Teenage passive aggressive drama rarely works well in the workplace... or life in general.

11 points by mxmpawn 13y ago

7Figures2Commas 13y ago

Since it sounds like the other developer you're working with isn't going away any time soon, you have two simple options: 1. Deal with it. If you're being paid well, like working from home and nobody is (yet) concerned that it's taking you longer to deliver because of the other developer's shortcomings, you can learn to live with the situation and do your best to be as productive as possible in the 20 hours you're being paid for each week. 2. Quit. If your happiness ultimately requires that you work with competent people, you should seek out other opportunities that will give you the ability to do so.

julianpye 13y ago

As you mention that you both work from home, but that you met him in person, it sounds as if you're locally close together. As such the best thing would be to work together for one day. Think XP pair programming and start off with version control. Many people would like to learn better techniques, but need a non-stressful environment such as pair programming for it. Since he writes complex code for simple things, it sounds as if he is struggling and he may have a hard time learning more.

TempleOS 13y ago

I'm in jail. Don't worry -- God will do justice to my enemies. --------------- 39:7 And it came to pass after these things, that his master's wife cast her eyes upon Joseph; and she said, Lie with me. 39:8 But he refused, and said unto his master's wife, Behold, my master wotteth not what is with me in the house, and he hath committed all that he hath to my hand; 39:9 There is none greater in this house than I; neither hath he kept back any thing from me but thee, because thou art his wife: how then can I do this great wickedness, and sin against God? 39:10 And it came to pass, as she spake to Joseph day by day, that he hearkened not unto her, to lie by her, or to be with her. 39:11 And it came to pass about this time, that Joseph went into the house to do his business; and there was none of the men of the house there within. 39:12 And she caught him by his garment, saying, Lie with me: and he left his garment in her hand, and fled, and got him out. 39:13 And it came to pass, when she saw that he had left his garment in her hand, and was fled forth, 39:14 That she called unto the men of her house, and spake unto them, saying, See, he hath brought in an Hebrew unto us to mock us; he came in unto me to lie with me, and I cried with a loud voice: 39:15 And it came to pass, when he heard that I lifted up my voice and cried, that he left his garment with me, and fled, and got him out. 39:16 And she laid up his garment by her, until his lord came home. 39:17 And she spake unto him according to these words, saying, The Hebrew servant, which thou hast brought unto us, came in unto me to mock me: 39:18 And it came to pass, as I lifted up my voice and cried, that he left his garment with me, and fled out. 39:19 And it came to pass, when his master heard the words of his wife, which she spake unto him, saying, After this manner did thy servant to me; that his wrath was kindled. 39:20 And Joseph's master took him, and put him into the prison, a place where the king's prisoners were bound: and he was there in the prison. 39:21 But the LORD was with Joseph, and shewed him mercy, and gave him favour in the sight of the keeper of the prison. 39:22 And the keeper of the prison committed to Joseph's hand all the prisoners that were in the prison; and whatsoever they did there, he was the doer of it. 39:23 The keeper of the prison looked not to any thing that was under his hand; because the LORD was with him, and that which he did, the LORD made it to prosper. 40:1 And it came to pass after these things, that the butler of the king of Egypt and his baker had offended their lord the king of Egypt. 40:2 And Pharaoh was wroth against two of his officers, against the chief of the butlers, and against the chief of the bakers. 40:3 And he put them in ward in the house of the captain of the guard, into the prison, the place where Joseph was bound. 40:4 And the captain of the guard charged Joseph with them, and he served them: and they continued a season in ward. 40:5 And they dreamed a dream both of them, each man his dream in one night, each man according to the interpretation of his dream, the butler and the baker of the king of Egypt, which were bound in the prison. 40:6 And Joseph came in unto them in the morning, and looked upon them, and, behold, they were sad. 40:7 And he asked Pharaoh's officers that were with him in the ward of his lord's house, saying, Wherefore look ye so sadly to day? 40:8 And they said unto him, We have dreamed a dream, and there is no interpreter of it. And Joseph said unto them, Do not interpretations belong to God? tell me them, I pray you. 40:9 And the chief butler told his dream to Joseph, and said to him, In my dream, behold, a vine was before me; 40:10 And in the vine were three branches: and it was as though it budded, and her blossoms shot forth; and the clusters thereof brought forth ripe grapes: 40:11 And Pharaoh's cup was in my hand: and I took the grapes, and pressed them into Pharaoh's cup, and I gave the cup into Pharaoh's hand. 40:12 And Joseph said unto him, This is the interpretation of it: The three branches are three days: 40:13 Yet within three days shall Pharaoh lift up thine head, and restore thee unto thy place: and thou shalt deliver Pharaoh's cup into his hand, after the former manner when thou wast his butler. 40:14 But think on me when it shall be well with thee, and shew kindness, I pray thee, unto me, and make mention of me unto Pharaoh, and bring me out of this house: 40:15 For indeed I was stolen away out of the land of the Hebrews: and here also have I done nothing that they should put me into the dungeon. 40:16 When the chief baker saw that the interpretation was good, he said unto Joseph, I also was in my dream, and, behold, I had three white baskets on my head: 40:17 And in the uppermost basket there was of all manner of bakemeats for Pharaoh; and the birds did eat them out of the basket upon my head. 40:18 And Joseph answered and said, This is the interpretation thereof: The three baskets are three days: 40:19 Yet within three days shall Pharaoh lift up thy head from off thee, and shall hang thee on a tree; and the birds shall eat thy flesh from off thee. 40:20 And it came to pass the third day, which was Pharaoh's birthday, that he made a feast unto all his servants: and he lifted up the head of the chief butler and of the chief baker among his servants. 40:21 And he restored the chief butler unto his butlership again; and he gave the cup into Pharaoh's hand: 40:22 But he hanged the chief baker: as Joseph had interpreted to them. 40:23 Yet did not the chief butler remember Joseph, but forgat him. 41:1 And it came to pass at the end of two full years, that Pharaoh dreamed: and, behold, he stood by the river. 41:2 And, behold, there came up out of the river seven well favoured kine and fatfleshed; and they fed in a meadow.

hkarthik 13y ago

My advice in this situation would be to talk to the founder and ask them to hire someone else and let this guy go. If they won't, you should probably just quit. You will be carrying this individual for a long time, and it may take a third or fourth person coming on before it becomes more obvious that this individual is a problem. In situations like this, the founders should have hired on a technical lead and have both of you reporting to the lead. Or one of them should be technical enough to be the lead. I would suggest looking for opportunities that are managed in this way in the future.

sharemywin 13y ago

I think the biggest issue is the founders aren't working to fix the problem. But it might not be as big a problem right now. I would keep them in the loop but their first concerns should be deliverying a fantastic user experience and getting initial users. tThe backend code will probably need to be rewriten anyway to scale.

mattwritescode 13y ago

Dont give them any responsibility, tell them there rubbish and generally dont be nice to them. Make sure you tell them the reason you are being horrible is because there crap at there job. It will do one of two things to them. Either, make them leave, or make them want to improve themselves.

deleted 13y ago
[deleted]
powatom 13y ago
Or, this will be rightly construed as an inability to get along with your colleagues and you will be fired. "Because he's bad at his job" is not a defence for any kind of abuse.
PencilAndPaper 13y ago
Terrible advice! Stressing people out typically makes them less competent and more prone to error. Teenage passive aggressive drama rarely works well in the workplace... or life in general.