3 ms·

The school isn't the problem. There are huge social problems that need to be addressed, which are unfortunately politically-incorrect, before we start changing

by blhack 13y ago

The school isn't the problem. There are huge social problems that need to be addressed, which are unfortunately politically-incorrect, before we start changing schools. Go visit a school in a very poor area sometime. They need social workers, not teachers. The problem is that a lot of teachers don't want to be social workers, they want to be teachers.

ironchef 13y ago
They need _way_ more socioeconomic support. Social workers, counselors (completely underfunded), administration, and teachers. It _is_ a hard knock life.
jarrett 13y ago
Very true, but it's not just socioeconomically disadvantaged schools that are in trouble. Schools serving middle-class populations often have the problems the author enumerates. For example, the author says that classes do not teach practical skills such as filing taxes or negotiating. He also says that teacher pay is too low, considering its social importance. These (and other) problems the author addresses are not at all confined to poorer schools. So yes, deeper issues of inequality play a major role in education outcomes. But the education itself is also flawed. Part of the reason for this is the political culture in our country. We tend to lurch from quick fix to quick fix. A reform is introduced, and three years later the world hasn't turned upside down, so a new reform replaces it. Repeat indefinitely. Or else, a simplistic solution, like expanding standardized testing, is pushed farther and farther every year, in the hopes that if we just take it far enough, it will solve all our problems.
- ironchef 13y ago
  Sure...and part of it is that to do things well there's (generally) not a one-size fits all solution. Unfortunately that's what most americans are geared towards. To get a multitude of solutions is typically more costly. Spot on about the middle classes also feeling it by the way. On the plus side, I know even in a poor school here they have consumer education classes which includes things such as balancing checkbooks, how financing big purchases works, how the stock market works, etc. It's very nice to see.
  - ollysb 13y ago
    Given recent events it seems that an understanding of how government related systems work e.g. democracy, capitalism, legal etc. And I'm not talking about how to participate at a practical/individual level, I mean how these systems benefit society and what dangers the population needs to guard against to ensure that they continue to work.
- randomdata 13y ago
  > He also says that teacher pay is too low That may be true, but it is not clear if that will translate into a better education. Teacher pay in Canada puts many of them into the top 5% of earners, yet when demographically adjusted, students in the USA perform on par or sometimes even better than their Canadian counterparts. When observed as a whole, Canadian students show better performance, but that is, according to the study that I cannot seem to find now, due to demographic cohesion that is not found in the US.
deleted 13y ago
[deleted]

by blhack 13y ago

ironchef 13y ago

They need _way_ more socioeconomic support. Social workers, counselors (completely underfunded), administration, and teachers. It _is_ a hard knock life.

jarrett 13y ago

Very true, but it's not just socioeconomically disadvantaged schools that are in trouble. Schools serving middle-class populations often have the problems the author enumerates. For example, the author says that classes do not teach practical skills such as filing taxes or negotiating. He also says that teacher pay is too low, considering its social importance. These (and other) problems the author addresses are not at all confined to poorer schools. So yes, deeper issues of inequality play a major role in education outcomes. But the education itself is also flawed. Part of the reason for this is the political culture in our country. We tend to lurch from quick fix to quick fix. A reform is introduced, and three years later the world hasn't turned upside down, so a new reform replaces it. Repeat indefinitely. Or else, a simplistic solution, like expanding standardized testing, is pushed farther and farther every year, in the hopes that if we just take it far enough, it will solve all our problems.

ironchef 13y ago
Sure...and part of it is that to do things well there's (generally) not a one-size fits all solution. Unfortunately that's what most americans are geared towards. To get a multitude of solutions is typically more costly. Spot on about the middle classes also feeling it by the way. On the plus side, I know even in a poor school here they have consumer education classes which includes things such as balancing checkbooks, how financing big purchases works, how the stock market works, etc. It's very nice to see.
- ollysb 13y ago
  Given recent events it seems that an understanding of how government related systems work e.g. democracy, capitalism, legal etc. And I'm not talking about how to participate at a practical/individual level, I mean how these systems benefit society and what dangers the population needs to guard against to ensure that they continue to work.
randomdata 13y ago
> He also says that teacher pay is too low That may be true, but it is not clear if that will translate into a better education. Teacher pay in Canada puts many of them into the top 5% of earners, yet when demographically adjusted, students in the USA perform on par or sometimes even better than their Canadian counterparts. When observed as a whole, Canadian students show better performance, but that is, according to the study that I cannot seem to find now, due to demographic cohesion that is not found in the US.

deleted 13y ago

[deleted]