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> Now it could also be that this is the point in their lives when society values women the most and this is why they get paid well at that age. Troubling. Why

> Now it could also be that this is the point in their lives when society values women the most and this is why they get paid well at that age. Troubling. Why would this be? What does the System have to gain by valuing women of prime child-bearing age more than women of other ages? Less cynically: Women also have a "career option" not available to men: mother, and by extension stay-at-home mom. Is it possible that this group of women self-selects out of the workforce -- or the other way around, the women that achieve high career status tend to select out of stay-at-home motherhood?

rada 13y ago
Women also have a "career option" not available to men: mother, and by extension stay-at-home mom. Errr... what? My husband was a stay-at-home dad for a couple years, and he wasn't the only stay-at-home dad in his "mommy" group. Approximately 3.5% of stay-at-home parents in the U.S. are fathers, and that number is growing.
- Domenic_S 13y ago
  "was" for a "couple years" and 3.5% should tell you why I presented it as a nearly-exclusively female option, but you are correct that the option is available for men.
  - rada 13y ago
    You are confusing "available" with "frequent". Two different things entirely.
rayiner 13y ago
> Is it possible that this group of women self-selects out of the workforce -- or the other way around, the women that achieve high career status tend to select out of stay-at-home motherhood? Obviously nobody is forcing women to stay at home at the point of a gun. However, I think it can't be discounted the degree to which women are pressured socially to take on primary caregiver roles. My wife and I (~30, educated professionals) have a 8-month old. My wife as zero interest in staying at home. But from the minute she got pregnant the pressure started. My mom and her mom (both of whom work/ed) suggested that may she should stay at home for a few years when the baby was young. She's constantly bombarded by parenting fads that tell her she's a bad mom if she doesn't breastfeed/wear her baby around in a sling/etc. Those fads are never very compatible with professional working life. Meanwhile, nobody has any expectations of me. Nobody wonders why I don't take a few years off to raise the kid. None of the parenting fads are aimed at me. Heck, my own mother gets nervous whenever I have responsibility for the kid.
- Domenic_S 13y ago
  The interesting part of this comment is that the indignant language is not directed at the system that enforces incompatibility between a professional life and family life.
  - jlgreco 13y ago
    What do you mean? To me, he seems perturbed by society placing expectations on women that are not placed on men. This seems very reasonable.
    - Domenic_S 13y ago
      You might think so, he might even think so, but this is the real conflict: > Those fads are never very compatible with professional working life. Otherwise, why would he even say that? He'd say, "my wife isn't convinced by the science" or, "my wife isn't interested in that" but he doesn't -- he says the 'fads' are incompatible with a professional working life (nb: breastfeeding & baby-wearing have been practiced since basically the beginning of humanity; calling them 'fads' is particularly uncharitable). His (his wife's) conflict is that socially-defined 'good mothering' (of the 2013 variety) is at odds with professional life, and he (his wife) feels understandably insufficient when she's getting blasted with messages like 'breast is best!'. So their defense is to fight against societal gender expectations which is exactly what the system wants you to do because while everyone is arguing about whether men can breastfeed, nobody is arguing about missing the formative years of their child's life because you can only buy a house with two incomes.
      - rayiner 13y ago
        > (nb: breastfeeding & baby-wearing have been practiced since basically the beginning of humanity; calling them 'fads' is particularly uncharitable) Educated, upper-income Americans acting like they're prehistoric villagers is, in fact, the root of several different fads.
        13y ago

rada 13y ago

Women also have a "career option" not available to men: mother, and by extension stay-at-home mom. Errr... what? My husband was a stay-at-home dad for a couple years, and he wasn't the only stay-at-home dad in his "mommy" group. Approximately 3.5% of stay-at-home parents in the U.S. are fathers, and that number is growing.

Domenic_S 13y ago
"was" for a "couple years" and 3.5% should tell you why I presented it as a nearly-exclusively female option, but you are correct that the option is available for men.
- rada 13y ago
  You are confusing "available" with "frequent". Two different things entirely.

rayiner 13y ago

> Is it possible that this group of women self-selects out of the workforce -- or the other way around, the women that achieve high career status tend to select out of stay-at-home motherhood? Obviously nobody is forcing women to stay at home at the point of a gun. However, I think it can't be discounted the degree to which women are pressured socially to take on primary caregiver roles. My wife and I (~30, educated professionals) have a 8-month old. My wife as zero interest in staying at home. But from the minute she got pregnant the pressure started. My mom and her mom (both of whom work/ed) suggested that may she should stay at home for a few years when the baby was young. She's constantly bombarded by parenting fads that tell her she's a bad mom if she doesn't breastfeed/wear her baby around in a sling/etc. Those fads are never very compatible with professional working life. Meanwhile, nobody has any expectations of me. Nobody wonders why I don't take a few years off to raise the kid. None of the parenting fads are aimed at me. Heck, my own mother gets nervous whenever I have responsibility for the kid.

Domenic_S 13y ago
The interesting part of this comment is that the indignant language is not directed at the system that enforces incompatibility between a professional life and family life.
- jlgreco 13y ago
  What do you mean? To me, he seems perturbed by society placing expectations on women that are not placed on men. This seems very reasonable.
  - Domenic_S 13y ago
    You might think so, he might even think so, but this is the real conflict: > Those fads are never very compatible with professional working life. Otherwise, why would he even say that? He'd say, "my wife isn't convinced by the science" or, "my wife isn't interested in that" but he doesn't -- he says the 'fads' are incompatible with a professional working life (nb: breastfeeding & baby-wearing have been practiced since basically the beginning of humanity; calling them 'fads' is particularly uncharitable). His (his wife's) conflict is that socially-defined 'good mothering' (of the 2013 variety) is at odds with professional life, and he (his wife) feels understandably insufficient when she's getting blasted with messages like 'breast is best!'. So their defense is to fight against societal gender expectations which is exactly what the system wants you to do because while everyone is arguing about whether men can breastfeed, nobody is arguing about missing the formative years of their child's life because you can only buy a house with two incomes.
    - rayiner 13y ago
      > (nb: breastfeeding & baby-wearing have been practiced since basically the beginning of humanity; calling them 'fads' is particularly uncharitable) Educated, upper-income Americans acting like they're prehistoric villagers is, in fact, the root of several different fads.
      - 13y ago