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This doesn't debunk the wage gap, only that the wage gap is not caused by differences in pay between men and women doing similar work in similar roles. The wage

This doesn't debunk the wage gap, only that the wage gap is not caused by differences in pay between men and women doing similar work in similar roles. The wage gap has always been structural: women tend to be prevalent in lower wage jobs or are penalized more for default expectations about raising children or domestic work. Also, men are more common the higher in company/corporate structures you go, so naturally women do not make as much because they are not as represented in those higher salary roles.

smsm42 13y ago
>>> only that the wage gap is not caused by differences in pay between men and women doing similar work in similar roles. That's pretty much what is common understanding of the wage gap. If you understand by "wage gap" that less paid positions paid less, it's meaningless. If you understand by it that women more often work in positions that pay less, then it's not a wage gap - it is a position gap or promotion gap or whatever else gap. So calling it "wage gap" is misleading, as the wage is not the variable that changes between men and women - the position on which they get the wage is.
- papsosouid 13y ago
  >That's pretty much what is common understanding of the wage gap No it isn't. If that were the common understanding, then people would not say they are fighting for "equal pay for equal work". The very existence of the phrase "equal pay for equal work" demonstrates that people do believe (incorrectly) that women are paid less than men for the same work.
  - smsm42 13y ago
    Wait, I think you misunderstood me. I was saying that absence of "equal pay for equal work" is a common understanding of what the wage gap is. And that calling different pay for different work "wage gap" is wrong, even if it comes out statistically that more women have lower-paid jobs than men.
papsosouid 13y ago
Yes, it does debunk it. Wage has a specific meaning. If women are taking a different job, obviously they are earning a different wage, that is in no way a "wage gap". Calling someone working 80% of the hours and earning 80% of the pay a "wage gap" is completely absurd. >Also, men are more common the higher in company/corporate structures you go They are also more common the lower you go. Men are more common at both extremes, and ignoring the bottom part is a really common fallacy used to push a particular agenda.
- king_jester 13y ago
  This seems like splitting hairs. There is wage disparity between men and women in general and there are reasons for that difference. Ultimately those reasons need to be discussed and addressed as it doesn't serve society to have so many of its members pigeonholed into low wage work (this extends beyond gender, of course)
  - papsosouid 13y ago
    Not at all. We have constant, deliberate deception being used to influence policy and law. People overwhelmingly believe the lie that women get paid less for the same work, that would be a wage gap. Policy decisions are made based on that lie. Politicians now repeat that lie. This is a problem, and needs to be addressed. Pointing out the reality is how I am doing my part to try to address this problem. It is not splitting hairs.
    - king_jester 13y ago
      Almost every analysis I've ever read about the wage gap went beyond the pay difference to look at domestic work, child care, types of work available to men and women, number of men/women in a kind of work, etc. > People overwhelmingly believe the lie that women get paid less for the same work, that would be a wage gap. Policy decisions are made based on that lie. Politicians now repeat that lie. This is a problem, and needs to be addressed. Wouldn't addressing the lie include an acknowledgement of wage disparity outside of 'different pay for the same work'? Often I see this issue framed in terms of comparable work and work loads due to the difference in types of jobs and representation in certain fields.

smsm42 13y ago

>>> only that the wage gap is not caused by differences in pay between men and women doing similar work in similar roles. That's pretty much what is common understanding of the wage gap. If you understand by "wage gap" that less paid positions paid less, it's meaningless. If you understand by it that women more often work in positions that pay less, then it's not a wage gap - it is a position gap or promotion gap or whatever else gap. So calling it "wage gap" is misleading, as the wage is not the variable that changes between men and women - the position on which they get the wage is.

papsosouid 13y ago
>That's pretty much what is common understanding of the wage gap No it isn't. If that were the common understanding, then people would not say they are fighting for "equal pay for equal work". The very existence of the phrase "equal pay for equal work" demonstrates that people do believe (incorrectly) that women are paid less than men for the same work.
- smsm42 13y ago
  Wait, I think you misunderstood me. I was saying that absence of "equal pay for equal work" is a common understanding of what the wage gap is. And that calling different pay for different work "wage gap" is wrong, even if it comes out statistically that more women have lower-paid jobs than men.

papsosouid 13y ago

Yes, it does debunk it. Wage has a specific meaning. If women are taking a different job, obviously they are earning a different wage, that is in no way a "wage gap". Calling someone working 80% of the hours and earning 80% of the pay a "wage gap" is completely absurd. >Also, men are more common the higher in company/corporate structures you go They are also more common the lower you go. Men are more common at both extremes, and ignoring the bottom part is a really common fallacy used to push a particular agenda.

king_jester 13y ago
This seems like splitting hairs. There is wage disparity between men and women in general and there are reasons for that difference. Ultimately those reasons need to be discussed and addressed as it doesn't serve society to have so many of its members pigeonholed into low wage work (this extends beyond gender, of course)
- papsosouid 13y ago
  Not at all. We have constant, deliberate deception being used to influence policy and law. People overwhelmingly believe the lie that women get paid less for the same work, that would be a wage gap. Policy decisions are made based on that lie. Politicians now repeat that lie. This is a problem, and needs to be addressed. Pointing out the reality is how I am doing my part to try to address this problem. It is not splitting hairs.
  - king_jester 13y ago
    Almost every analysis I've ever read about the wage gap went beyond the pay difference to look at domestic work, child care, types of work available to men and women, number of men/women in a kind of work, etc. > People overwhelmingly believe the lie that women get paid less for the same work, that would be a wage gap. Policy decisions are made based on that lie. Politicians now repeat that lie. This is a problem, and needs to be addressed. Wouldn't addressing the lie include an acknowledgement of wage disparity outside of 'different pay for the same work'? Often I see this issue framed in terms of comparable work and work loads due to the difference in types of jobs and representation in certain fields.