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The reason I don't listen to women in tech presentations: 1. I'm basically not allowed to voice an opinion that isn't completely aligned with the feminist stat

The reason I don't listen to women in tech presentations: 1. I'm basically not allowed to voice an opinion that isn't completely aligned with the feminist status quo (I believe in equality, fuck me right). 2. I'd rather learn how to build a better emberjs app. Or learn more about thorium. 3. Unlike the vast majority of problems, there are few concrete steps to be taken to correct the imbalances that do exist. Edit: I can't believe I had to self sensor, just to hit the post button.

smtddr 13y ago
With this kind of thinking, how will women(or any less-represented group) be able to reach you?
- overgard 13y ago
  He didn't say he wasn't willing to listen, he expressed that he wanted a forum for equal discussion instead of a one way message.
  - jasonlotito 13y ago
    Seeing that he doesn't attend "women in tech" presentations, how does he know they are all one-way messages? On a side note: considering he's frustrated at self-sensoring himself from saying something he knew was wrong to say in some manner, I'd contend that in an environment where you do not have a chance to review what you say before saying it out loud, he's at least partially responsible for reactions he receives.
    - overgard 13y ago
      Well he didn't say he never attended one, only that he chooses not to now. Anything else is editorializing. I don't know the guy so I can't say anything about his opinions, but I'm amused at how many assumptions people are making about this guy.
      - jasonlotito 13y ago
        > Well he didn't say he never attended one, only that he chooses not to now I didn't suggest he never attend one. In fact, I was careful to avoid suggesting that at all. My question has nothing to do with what happened in the past, but rather, his assumption that everything he doesn't attend is a certain way. > I'm amused at how many assumptions people are making about this guy. Casting stones, pots and kettles, and all that jazz.
icebraining 13y ago
I can't believe I had to self sensor, just to hit the post button. What do you mean?
- 3pt14159 13y ago
  I had a fourth point, but there is no reason to kick the hornets nest in life.
rmrfrmrf 13y ago
I'm sorry to hear that; that must be awful.
theorique 13y ago
The reason I don't listen to women in tech presentations I assume you mean "I don't listen to 'women in tech' presentations", rather than, "I don't listen to women, in tech presentations". The former is a political stance, the latter is excluding an entire sex for unknown reason, even if they are talking of emberjs or thorium.
- GhotiFish 13y ago
  Yah I read those two sentences as well. A piece of advice from my father: If you have two ways to take something, take it the nice way.
  - theorique 13y ago
    Good advice :) I try to follow it in my life.
- prawks 13y ago
  I'll admit I side with the poster a bit, and I'd definitely agree with the former. The problem is that "women in tech" presentation don't try to fix the root-cause of the issue by giving "men in tech" any reason to believe women should be treated as equals. In my undergraduate studies we had an exceptional student who happened to be female. She gave enlightening and challenging technical presentations that engaged the audience. That's how it should be.
  - needacig 13y ago
    > The problem is that "women in tech" presentation don't try to fix the root-cause of the issue by giving "men in tech" any reason to believe women should be treated as equals. Why is your null hypothesis that women shouldn't be treated as equals?
    - reedlaw 13y ago
      I did't read it that way. By having separate presentations for women the implicit message is one of inequality. Why not just "tech" presentations where men and women are equally welcome? The article, on the other hand, seems to be pushing more for indistinguishability rather than equality. E.g.: "That depressing statistic about there being only three female CEOs in the FTSE 100..." It is only depressing if you think men and women being created equal means that they should have a perfect 50/50 split representation across every endeavor.
jusben1369 13y ago
Good Lord you do sound like you have a lot of issues with women btw. Edit: My fault for not explaining further: Pasted just below: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=6045814 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=6045814
- Wintamute 13y ago
  When someone says they believe in equality, why do you then say they have an issue with women?
  - arrrg 13y ago
    I'm just guessing, but I would say maybe completely bonkers bullshit like "feminist status quo"?!
    - overgard 13y ago
      If we accept that there's such a thing as feminism, it would make sense that it would have a current status quo. The argument would be if you agree with their definition of the status quo or not.
      - shadowfox 13y ago
        I think the parent is also implying that there is perhaps no particular status quo with respect to the entire feminist movement(s)
      - king_jester 13y ago
        > If we accept that there's such a thing as feminism, it would make sense that it would have a current status quo. This doesn't make sense. Most movements that are composed of many different groups with different interests never reach a status quo. Mass movements are rare and usually are not as mass as they are made out to be. Acting like feminism is a monolith and that all feminists act or think a certain way is one of the most common stereotype out there.
epsylon 13y ago
> 1. I'm basically not allowed to voice an opinion that isn't completely aligned with the feminist status quo (I believe in equality, fuck me right). Yes, because there is actually a single, unified, globally agreed upon feminist status quo who tries to silence the voices of brave dissenters...
- theorique 13y ago
  There isn't a 'single' status quo, but if you question and/or debate the existence or definition of certain articles of feminist faith such as 'patriarchy' or 'rape culture' or various statistics about the relative status of women versus men, watch out.
  - king_jester 13y ago
    > debate the existence or definition of certain articles of feminist faith such as 'patriarchy' or 'rape culture' This is not a debate in good faith. If you come to the table with no previous knowledge about anything and demand to be heard, why should people waste time with bringing you up to speed? The vast majority of the times this happens it ends up in moving the goal posts.
    - theorique 13y ago
      I'm certainly not suggesting that a person go in completely uninformed, nor that he use misguided or misogynist arguments. But it's completely suitable to refute statistics or conclusions if one has done the appropriate reading - both feminist texts and texts criticizing feminism - and come to different conclusions.
      - king_jester 13y ago
        I totally agree. However trying to argue that patriarchy or rape culture doesn't exist would imply that someone doesn't have a even a basic understanding of written feminist works as they go over this in various criticism very often.
    - 13y ago
rmc 13y ago
1. I'm basically not allowed to voice an opinion that isn't completely aligned with the feminist status quo (I believe in equality, fuck me right). Many people not involved with feminist groups often think feminists think the same about everything. Which shows they know nothing about actual disagreements within feminists groups. Just look up transexual issues & feminism. That's a big source of disagreement right there.
- papsosouid 13y ago
  That doesn't mean there isn't a significant amount of mythology that is widely agreed upon in feminist circles. If you expect insane conspiracy theory nonsense like "patriarchy" to actually be supported by evidence rather than accepted on faith, then you are not welcome in feminist discourse, plain and simple.
  - icebraining 13y ago
    I'm rather confused by your post. I've never seen the patriarchy described as a "conspiracy", or a willful choice by men to control women, but has a social structure - perpetuated by certain social institutions - that ensure that men as a gender (not every individual, of course) maintain oppressive power over women. Regardless of the existence of the patriarchy as a phenomena - and there are many critics of the theory, from the right and the left -, it makes no sense to dismiss it as a conspiracy theory.
    - papsosouid 13y ago
      >but has a social structure - perpetuated by certain social institutions - that ensure that men as a gender (not every individual, of course) maintain oppressive power over women. What you described is a conspiracy. Of course feminists don't describe their own conspiracy theories as conspiracy theories, they want them to appear legitimate.
      - king_jester 13y ago
        Conspiracy usually means a deliberate attempt of a group to do something rather than something that occurs for systemic or institutional reasons. Ultimately patriarchy as a social force and concept is totally provable has statistical and philosophical evidence that shows it exists. Every basic women's studies or feminist book goes over this to some extent.
arrrg 13y ago
http://www.harkavagrant.com/?id=341 http://www.harkavagrant.com/?id=341 Lazy asshole.
- 3pt14159 13y ago
  Yeah see this is exactly what I'm talking about.

smtddr 13y ago

With this kind of thinking, how will women(or any less-represented group) be able to reach you?

overgard 13y ago
He didn't say he wasn't willing to listen, he expressed that he wanted a forum for equal discussion instead of a one way message.
- jasonlotito 13y ago
  Seeing that he doesn't attend "women in tech" presentations, how does he know they are all one-way messages? On a side note: considering he's frustrated at self-sensoring himself from saying something he knew was wrong to say in some manner, I'd contend that in an environment where you do not have a chance to review what you say before saying it out loud, he's at least partially responsible for reactions he receives.
  - overgard 13y ago
    Well he didn't say he never attended one, only that he chooses not to now. Anything else is editorializing. I don't know the guy so I can't say anything about his opinions, but I'm amused at how many assumptions people are making about this guy.
    - jasonlotito 13y ago
      > Well he didn't say he never attended one, only that he chooses not to now I didn't suggest he never attend one. In fact, I was careful to avoid suggesting that at all. My question has nothing to do with what happened in the past, but rather, his assumption that everything he doesn't attend is a certain way. > I'm amused at how many assumptions people are making about this guy. Casting stones, pots and kettles, and all that jazz.

icebraining 13y ago

I can't believe I had to self sensor, just to hit the post button. What do you mean?

3pt14159 13y ago
I had a fourth point, but there is no reason to kick the hornets nest in life.

rmrfrmrf 13y ago

I'm sorry to hear that; that must be awful.

theorique 13y ago

The reason I don't listen to women in tech presentations I assume you mean "I don't listen to 'women in tech' presentations", rather than, "I don't listen to women, in tech presentations". The former is a political stance, the latter is excluding an entire sex for unknown reason, even if they are talking of emberjs or thorium.

GhotiFish 13y ago
Yah I read those two sentences as well. A piece of advice from my father: If you have two ways to take something, take it the nice way.
- theorique 13y ago
  Good advice :) I try to follow it in my life.
prawks 13y ago
I'll admit I side with the poster a bit, and I'd definitely agree with the former. The problem is that "women in tech" presentation don't try to fix the root-cause of the issue by giving "men in tech" any reason to believe women should be treated as equals. In my undergraduate studies we had an exceptional student who happened to be female. She gave enlightening and challenging technical presentations that engaged the audience. That's how it should be.
- needacig 13y ago
  > The problem is that "women in tech" presentation don't try to fix the root-cause of the issue by giving "men in tech" any reason to believe women should be treated as equals. Why is your null hypothesis that women shouldn't be treated as equals?
  - reedlaw 13y ago
    I did't read it that way. By having separate presentations for women the implicit message is one of inequality. Why not just "tech" presentations where men and women are equally welcome? The article, on the other hand, seems to be pushing more for indistinguishability rather than equality. E.g.: "That depressing statistic about there being only three female CEOs in the FTSE 100..." It is only depressing if you think men and women being created equal means that they should have a perfect 50/50 split representation across every endeavor.

jusben1369 13y ago

Good Lord you do sound like you have a lot of issues with women btw. Edit: My fault for not explaining further: Pasted just below: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=6045814 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=6045814

Wintamute 13y ago
When someone says they believe in equality, why do you then say they have an issue with women?
- arrrg 13y ago
  I'm just guessing, but I would say maybe completely bonkers bullshit like "feminist status quo"?!
  - overgard 13y ago
    If we accept that there's such a thing as feminism, it would make sense that it would have a current status quo. The argument would be if you agree with their definition of the status quo or not.
    - shadowfox 13y ago
      I think the parent is also implying that there is perhaps no particular status quo with respect to the entire feminist movement(s)
    - king_jester 13y ago
      > If we accept that there's such a thing as feminism, it would make sense that it would have a current status quo. This doesn't make sense. Most movements that are composed of many different groups with different interests never reach a status quo. Mass movements are rare and usually are not as mass as they are made out to be. Acting like feminism is a monolith and that all feminists act or think a certain way is one of the most common stereotype out there.

epsylon 13y ago

> 1. I'm basically not allowed to voice an opinion that isn't completely aligned with the feminist status quo (I believe in equality, fuck me right). Yes, because there is actually a single, unified, globally agreed upon feminist status quo who tries to silence the voices of brave dissenters...

theorique 13y ago
There isn't a 'single' status quo, but if you question and/or debate the existence or definition of certain articles of feminist faith such as 'patriarchy' or 'rape culture' or various statistics about the relative status of women versus men, watch out.
- king_jester 13y ago
  > debate the existence or definition of certain articles of feminist faith such as 'patriarchy' or 'rape culture' This is not a debate in good faith. If you come to the table with no previous knowledge about anything and demand to be heard, why should people waste time with bringing you up to speed? The vast majority of the times this happens it ends up in moving the goal posts.
  - theorique 13y ago
    I'm certainly not suggesting that a person go in completely uninformed, nor that he use misguided or misogynist arguments. But it's completely suitable to refute statistics or conclusions if one has done the appropriate reading - both feminist texts and texts criticizing feminism - and come to different conclusions.
    - king_jester 13y ago
      I totally agree. However trying to argue that patriarchy or rape culture doesn't exist would imply that someone doesn't have a even a basic understanding of written feminist works as they go over this in various criticism very often.
  - 13y ago

rmc 13y ago

1. I'm basically not allowed to voice an opinion that isn't completely aligned with the feminist status quo (I believe in equality, fuck me right). Many people not involved with feminist groups often think feminists think the same about everything. Which shows they know nothing about actual disagreements within feminists groups. Just look up transexual issues & feminism. That's a big source of disagreement right there.

papsosouid 13y ago
That doesn't mean there isn't a significant amount of mythology that is widely agreed upon in feminist circles. If you expect insane conspiracy theory nonsense like "patriarchy" to actually be supported by evidence rather than accepted on faith, then you are not welcome in feminist discourse, plain and simple.
- icebraining 13y ago
  I'm rather confused by your post. I've never seen the patriarchy described as a "conspiracy", or a willful choice by men to control women, but has a social structure - perpetuated by certain social institutions - that ensure that men as a gender (not every individual, of course) maintain oppressive power over women. Regardless of the existence of the patriarchy as a phenomena - and there are many critics of the theory, from the right and the left -, it makes no sense to dismiss it as a conspiracy theory.
  - papsosouid 13y ago
    >but has a social structure - perpetuated by certain social institutions - that ensure that men as a gender (not every individual, of course) maintain oppressive power over women. What you described is a conspiracy. Of course feminists don't describe their own conspiracy theories as conspiracy theories, they want them to appear legitimate.
    - king_jester 13y ago
      Conspiracy usually means a deliberate attempt of a group to do something rather than something that occurs for systemic or institutional reasons. Ultimately patriarchy as a social force and concept is totally provable has statistical and philosophical evidence that shows it exists. Every basic women's studies or feminist book goes over this to some extent.

arrrg 13y ago

http://www.harkavagrant.com/?id=341 http://www.harkavagrant.com/?id=341 Lazy asshole.

3pt14159 13y ago
Yeah see this is exactly what I'm talking about.