10 ms·

Linux vs. Linux Users

46 points by rflrob 13y ago

hpaavola 13y ago
Seems to be down. Mirror?
- onli 13y ago
  http://webcache.googleusercontent.com/search?q=cache:www.shamusyoung.com/twentysidedtale/%3Fp%3D20339&hl=en&strip=1 http://webcache.googleusercontent.com/search?q=cache:www.sha...
- laumars 13y ago
  It's essentially just a rant at OS fanboys who post knee-jerk reactions without stopping to think about the context of the post they're irritated by. I feel for the author, I really do. He posted some rather obvious satire about Windows vs Linux and then faced the wrath of the brain-dead as numerous zealots took to site -and e-mail- to send profanities. But what the author misses is that this tribal behavior happens with all OSs and has been the case for many years. Sadly this is nothing new nor unique to his incident. While it's easier said than done, sometimes it's better to just ignore the hate and silently moderate the worst comments (or better yet, close the comments on that article and let the haters have their flamewars somewhere else)
nkuttler 13y ago
Google Cache https://webcache.googleusercontent.com/search?q=cache:www.shamusyoung.com/twentysidedtale/?p=20339 https://webcache.googleusercontent.com/search?q=cache:www.sh...
lmm 13y ago
You get these kind of cranks for anything. Unless he's compared with a control article where he's equally dumb about a different subject I wouldn't read anything into it.
- glogla 13y ago
  This. Just imagine the <expletive>storm if he did that with Apple products instead of Linux.
- laumars 13y ago
  He did compare it to a "control article". A few in fact. And his article in question wasn't "dumb" - it was just satire which a bunch of kids misinterpreted as being "dumb". In fact your post is somewhat ironic because the article was about exactly that kind of negative knee-jerk reaction where commenters are quick to jump on the offensive without stopping to think about what they just read.
  - lmm 13y ago
    >He did compare it to a "control article". A few in fact. Were any of those he compared to ones where he was deliberately being dumb and wrong about something? >And his article in question wasn't "dumb" - it was just satire which a bunch of kids misinterpreted as being "dumb". Shrug. Poe's law. Or, as 4chan puts it, "ironic shitposting is still shitposting".
keithpeter 13y ago
Quote from cached version of OA "Windows 8 is a mess and while Windows 7 is pretty spiffy, it’s also a hundred dollars. Given the shape of the economy right now, lots of people would probably be willing to endure a bit of a learning curve to save that kind of money." The economic advantages of Linux/BSD based operating systems include the ability to use older hardware for longer and free/libre application software that may be adequate depending on use cases as well as the operating system itself. I would estimate significant savings over the years even though I have donated several times the cost of an OEM Windows 7 DVD to Ubuntu and other projects. Of course, 'lots of people' will be using non-Windows systems as they move to [tablets|chrome-book like laptops|Android based desktops when available] over the next few years. Based on a colleague fluidly demonstrating her Samsung Galaxy Tab the other day, they won't need much hand-holding! Negative comments on blogs? Perhaps not a surprise [1] [1] http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Online_disinhibition_effect http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Online_disinhibition_effect
- glogla 13y ago
  > Negative comments on blogs? Perhaps not a surprise [1] > [1] http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Online_disinhibition_effect http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Online_disinhibition_effect Obligatory comic response: http://www.penny-arcade.com/comic/2004/03/19 http://www.penny-arcade.com/comic/2004/03/19
- norswap 13y ago
  > The economic advantages of Linux/BSD based operating systems include the ability to use older hardware for longer Totally untrue in my experience, unless you want to use something as minimal as gentoo/archlinux, and that's not for everyone (and even then, low-level stuff like sub-optimal drivers might byte you). Windows XP is still the champ here, and I believe in many cases 7 does as least as good a job as most popular distros (Ubuntu/Debian/Fedora/...).
  - adamors 13y ago
    > unless you want to use something as minimal as gentoo/archlinux, and that's not for everyone I don't actually understand why wouldn't anyone use a minimal distro like Arch on any hardware. You would be surprised just how lightweight a full featured desktop environment like KDE can be on Arch/Gentoo.
antocv 13y ago
You didnt meet upon Linux users, I doubt that highly, it seems the comments you got were from people who had a wish to use Linux or perhaps tried it out as a LiveCD/Wubi installation and felt they were on top of the world. Some kind of teenager fanboys. Of all the quite many Linux users I know none would be interested in your, quite funny, article. Its just no on the radar to be interested in such articles if youve been using Linux for more than two-three months. The problem is this fanboism and making choice of OS some kind of life-style choice and then we have flamewars like in Month Pythons Life of Brian when "Peoples Liberation party and "party for Peoples Liberation" fight.
- doktrin 13y ago
  That's a whole lot of "No True Scottsman". Just because you don't know individuals like this personally doesn't mean they're not part of the community.
- nathanb 13y ago
  Linux users are no better (or worse) than the average human, in my experience. There will always be those who use it because it's trendy (in certain circles), iconoclastic, or quirky. There will always be those who are incapable of conceiving that reasonable people could differ in preference and will lash out at those whose preference differs from theirs. And there will always be people who see an article on /. or reddit and will go leave an incendiary comment on a weblog after having only read the title. I think this is less of a commentary on Linux users than on Humanity.
- crono5788 13y ago
  Honestly this kind of denialism ("You didn't meet Linux users, I doubt that highly") gives me the same impression as the people rabidly defending Linux while not even noticing the article is satire. If you really don't feel there is some problem with the Linux community, you probably aren't spending enough time acting as a member. All the Linux users I know personally would react reasonably to this article. Also all the Linux people I know would probably enjoy reading this article since it's funny. With that said I don't feel this is a Linux-specific issue. There are many communities that have problems seeming hostile over seemingly insignificant reasons. As a person who likes to try and help people, it makes me upset to watch almost 100% of questions in programming IRC channels get bogged down in a ridiculous never-ending trail of condescending "Why?" questions. Linux elitism and condescending IRC help and etc. are all the norm for tech people but stuff like this will help turn away new participants as fast as anything else. In other communities I see people getting vitriolic over music genres or art styles. As you mention, there are tons of smart, sensible Linux users, just like there are tons of helpful programmers. But invariably, the angriest or most opinionated people in a community will start posting the most and will end up making their entire scene look a little uglier. Sites like HN that incorporate user moderation are helping. The other thing that helps is simply when more level-headed and polite people put themselves out there to push their semi-neutral agendas. I know I personally have stopped a few "Why are you even THINKING about that!?" trains by simply answering the user's original question when I was able.
d23 13y ago
What does he expect? He clearly thinks Windows is a better operating system, and it shows. Okay, I'm kidding. I've tried some comedy stuff as a hobby and quickly realized that no matter how obvious to you think the jokes are -- hell, you probably think you're making it too blindingly obvious -- someone won't get it. They simply aren't your target audience. Maybe if you filled them with memes or rage comics it would communicate "hey there doofus, this is a joke!" But you'd lose the very people you're trying to target. The people that appreciate a slight turn of phrase or subtle, dry wit don't much cross over with the those who find least common denominator humor funny. Oh well.
MacsHeadroom 13y ago
I seem to remember something about trolls trolling trolls.

46 points by rflrob 13y ago

hpaavola 13y ago

Seems to be down. Mirror?

onli 13y ago
http://webcache.googleusercontent.com/search?q=cache:www.shamusyoung.com/twentysidedtale/%3Fp%3D20339&hl=en&strip=1 http://webcache.googleusercontent.com/search?q=cache:www.sha...
laumars 13y ago
It's essentially just a rant at OS fanboys who post knee-jerk reactions without stopping to think about the context of the post they're irritated by. I feel for the author, I really do. He posted some rather obvious satire about Windows vs Linux and then faced the wrath of the brain-dead as numerous zealots took to site -and e-mail- to send profanities. But what the author misses is that this tribal behavior happens with all OSs and has been the case for many years. Sadly this is nothing new nor unique to his incident. While it's easier said than done, sometimes it's better to just ignore the hate and silently moderate the worst comments (or better yet, close the comments on that article and let the haters have their flamewars somewhere else)

nkuttler 13y ago

Google Cache https://webcache.googleusercontent.com/search?q=cache:www.shamusyoung.com/twentysidedtale/?p=20339 https://webcache.googleusercontent.com/search?q=cache:www.sh...

lmm 13y ago

You get these kind of cranks for anything. Unless he's compared with a control article where he's equally dumb about a different subject I wouldn't read anything into it.

glogla 13y ago
This. Just imagine the <expletive>storm if he did that with Apple products instead of Linux.
laumars 13y ago
He did compare it to a "control article". A few in fact. And his article in question wasn't "dumb" - it was just satire which a bunch of kids misinterpreted as being "dumb". In fact your post is somewhat ironic because the article was about exactly that kind of negative knee-jerk reaction where commenters are quick to jump on the offensive without stopping to think about what they just read.
- lmm 13y ago
  >He did compare it to a "control article". A few in fact. Were any of those he compared to ones where he was deliberately being dumb and wrong about something? >And his article in question wasn't "dumb" - it was just satire which a bunch of kids misinterpreted as being "dumb". Shrug. Poe's law. Or, as 4chan puts it, "ironic shitposting is still shitposting".

keithpeter 13y ago

Quote from cached version of OA "Windows 8 is a mess and while Windows 7 is pretty spiffy, it’s also a hundred dollars. Given the shape of the economy right now, lots of people would probably be willing to endure a bit of a learning curve to save that kind of money." The economic advantages of Linux/BSD based operating systems include the ability to use older hardware for longer and free/libre application software that may be adequate depending on use cases as well as the operating system itself. I would estimate significant savings over the years even though I have donated several times the cost of an OEM Windows 7 DVD to Ubuntu and other projects. Of course, 'lots of people' will be using non-Windows systems as they move to [tablets|chrome-book like laptops|Android based desktops when available] over the next few years. Based on a colleague fluidly demonstrating her Samsung Galaxy Tab the other day, they won't need much hand-holding! Negative comments on blogs? Perhaps not a surprise [1] [1] http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Online_disinhibition_effect http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Online_disinhibition_effect

glogla 13y ago
> Negative comments on blogs? Perhaps not a surprise [1] > [1] http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Online_disinhibition_effect http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Online_disinhibition_effect Obligatory comic response: http://www.penny-arcade.com/comic/2004/03/19 http://www.penny-arcade.com/comic/2004/03/19
norswap 13y ago
> The economic advantages of Linux/BSD based operating systems include the ability to use older hardware for longer Totally untrue in my experience, unless you want to use something as minimal as gentoo/archlinux, and that's not for everyone (and even then, low-level stuff like sub-optimal drivers might byte you). Windows XP is still the champ here, and I believe in many cases 7 does as least as good a job as most popular distros (Ubuntu/Debian/Fedora/...).
- adamors 13y ago
  > unless you want to use something as minimal as gentoo/archlinux, and that's not for everyone I don't actually understand why wouldn't anyone use a minimal distro like Arch on any hardware. You would be surprised just how lightweight a full featured desktop environment like KDE can be on Arch/Gentoo.

antocv 13y ago

You didnt meet upon Linux users, I doubt that highly, it seems the comments you got were from people who had a wish to use Linux or perhaps tried it out as a LiveCD/Wubi installation and felt they were on top of the world. Some kind of teenager fanboys. Of all the quite many Linux users I know none would be interested in your, quite funny, article. Its just no on the radar to be interested in such articles if youve been using Linux for more than two-three months. The problem is this fanboism and making choice of OS some kind of life-style choice and then we have flamewars like in Month Pythons Life of Brian when "Peoples Liberation party and "party for Peoples Liberation" fight.

doktrin 13y ago
That's a whole lot of "No True Scottsman". Just because you don't know individuals like this personally doesn't mean they're not part of the community.
nathanb 13y ago
Linux users are no better (or worse) than the average human, in my experience. There will always be those who use it because it's trendy (in certain circles), iconoclastic, or quirky. There will always be those who are incapable of conceiving that reasonable people could differ in preference and will lash out at those whose preference differs from theirs. And there will always be people who see an article on /. or reddit and will go leave an incendiary comment on a weblog after having only read the title. I think this is less of a commentary on Linux users than on Humanity.
crono5788 13y ago
Honestly this kind of denialism ("You didn't meet Linux users, I doubt that highly") gives me the same impression as the people rabidly defending Linux while not even noticing the article is satire. If you really don't feel there is some problem with the Linux community, you probably aren't spending enough time acting as a member. All the Linux users I know personally would react reasonably to this article. Also all the Linux people I know would probably enjoy reading this article since it's funny. With that said I don't feel this is a Linux-specific issue. There are many communities that have problems seeming hostile over seemingly insignificant reasons. As a person who likes to try and help people, it makes me upset to watch almost 100% of questions in programming IRC channels get bogged down in a ridiculous never-ending trail of condescending "Why?" questions. Linux elitism and condescending IRC help and etc. are all the norm for tech people but stuff like this will help turn away new participants as fast as anything else. In other communities I see people getting vitriolic over music genres or art styles. As you mention, there are tons of smart, sensible Linux users, just like there are tons of helpful programmers. But invariably, the angriest or most opinionated people in a community will start posting the most and will end up making their entire scene look a little uglier. Sites like HN that incorporate user moderation are helping. The other thing that helps is simply when more level-headed and polite people put themselves out there to push their semi-neutral agendas. I know I personally have stopped a few "Why are you even THINKING about that!?" trains by simply answering the user's original question when I was able.

d23 13y ago

What does he expect? He clearly thinks Windows is a better operating system, and it shows. Okay, I'm kidding. I've tried some comedy stuff as a hobby and quickly realized that no matter how obvious to you think the jokes are -- hell, you probably think you're making it too blindingly obvious -- someone won't get it. They simply aren't your target audience. Maybe if you filled them with memes or rage comics it would communicate "hey there doofus, this is a joke!" But you'd lose the very people you're trying to target. The people that appreciate a slight turn of phrase or subtle, dry wit don't much cross over with the those who find least common denominator humor funny. Oh well.

MacsHeadroom 13y ago

I seem to remember something about trolls trolling trolls.